1
00:00:07,820 --> 00:00:09,900
(ROCK BAND REHEARSING)

2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:11,500
Blaine, can I get your guitar?

3
00:00:16,380 --> 00:00:20,740
(CREW MEMBER) Check, yeah.
One, two, one, two, AD.

4
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,260
(SINGS)

5
00:00:28,300 --> 00:00:31,260
In life,
one thing leads to another thing.

6
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,540
You know, it's all part of
an exploration of gathering ideas.
Hello.

7
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,060
Hello, (BLEEP) listen.

8
00:00:39,140 --> 00:00:42,420
I see my art
as being a songwriter, really.

9
00:00:45,660 --> 00:00:48,260
It's Glen Matlock,
formally with the Sex Pistols.

10
00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:50,540
Glen, you've already got
a very good catalogue of songs,

11
00:00:50,620 --> 00:00:52,380
having written
which of the Sex Pistols hits?

12
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,020
We have an old English folk song
we're going to play for you
that I think you might know.

13
00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,300


14
00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:09,460
People like to paint me
as the guy from the Sex Pistols

15
00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:13,020
that nobody knows.
But that ain't quite true.

16
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,940


17
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:17,820


18
00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:22,180
They put on a brash,
crude display of music.

19
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,900
(JANET STREET-PORTER)
When the Sex Pistols,
with lead singer Johnny Rotten,

20
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,580
suddenly made Punk music
front page news,
they outraged pretty well everyone.

21
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,100
Come play apathetic old (BLEEP)

22
00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:35,660
People couldn't believe
what they were seeing,

23
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,060
because no-one
had seen anything like this.
One of the most reviewed,

24
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,060
and most reviled rock phenomena....
(U.S. NEWSCASTER) Their records
are among the most popular

25
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,660
in England.
The Pistols
were something completely different.

26
00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:50,500
The classic rejection
of the status quo,

27
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,620
into a new, more aggressive,

28
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:57,660
more heartfelt,
more passionate expression.

29
00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,900
It was fresh. It was naughty.

30
00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:00,940
Dirty fucker.

31
00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:03,100
(BILL GRUNDY) What a -
What a fucking rotter.

32
00:02:03,180 --> 00:02:05,260
Well, that's it for tonight.
We didn't realise

33
00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:07,500
how much
we were going to shake things up.

34
00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:10,420
People would say,
"They can't play'" you know.

35
00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:12,780
And the Pistol songs
are largely three-chord songs,

36
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,140
but it's three chords and the truth.

37
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:16,740
They made one goddamn album!

38
00:02:16,820 --> 00:02:18,900
It's one of the most
classic records of all time.

39
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,340
I could tell he understood

40
00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:28,460
the power of the instrument
he was playing.

41
00:02:28,540 --> 00:02:31,500
I think he is
the unsung hero of the band.

42
00:02:31,580 --> 00:02:35,300
A lot of people didn't quite realise
what he brought to the group.

43
00:02:35,380 --> 00:02:37,300
We were kind of fed
a Sid Vicious story,

44
00:02:37,380 --> 00:02:40,940
that Sid Vicious was Punk Rock
and Sid Vicious is the Sex Pistols.

45
00:02:41,020 --> 00:02:43,780
When we found out that Sid Vicious
could not play bass,

46
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,100
did not play bass, and there's
some other guy named Glen Matlock.
we're like, who's he?

47
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,340
There were so many people involved

48
00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:53,340
that they've all got
their own take on things.

49
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,860
So this is my side of the story.

50
00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:57,420
You are jogging my memory,
I must say.

51
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,140
Amazing how much you do remember.

52
00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:05,300
Everyone knows the story.

53
00:03:05,380 --> 00:03:07,820
I mean, we're fucking sick
of talking about it.

54
00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:11,100
It's the same old shit. We've told
the story a million times.

55
00:03:13,060 --> 00:03:15,340
OK, quiet on the set.
Action, OK.

56
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,740
('GOD SAVE THE QUEEN' ENDS)

57
00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:25,140
We gotta kind of set the scene
a little bit.

58
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,180
(ROCK MUSIC)

59
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,380
(HUMS)

60
00:03:37,460 --> 00:03:40,700
Here we are walking
up Ravensworth Road,

61
00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:42,980
northwest London. It was where
I was brought up

62
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,020
till I was about 16.
I used to live up there
with my mom and dad.

63
00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:50,940
I wouldn't mind having a look round,
if the new inhabitants let us in.

64
00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:52,820
Wow!
Lead the way around.

65
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,260
So this was my mum and dad's room.

66
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,100
This was my bedroom.

67
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,420
From about here to there

68
00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:04,100
And we didn't have a bathroom then.
Really? And that was it.

69
00:04:05,180 --> 00:04:07,300
Oh, hang on, hang on.
(LAUGHTER)

70
00:04:08,660 --> 00:04:11,460
The Pistols
were my favourite ever band.

71
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,660
It was a bit short of the plumbing.

72
00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:16,580
We had like a tin bath
we had to get out once a week.

73
00:04:16,660 --> 00:04:18,940
We used to run a hose
out from the scullery,

74
00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:22,940
which is a tiny little kitchen,
into the tin bath

75
00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:27,220
in front of the telly. My dad
was a sort of semi-skilled worker,

76
00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:29,380
had a few different jobs.

77
00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:31,380
He worked for Rolls-Royce
as a coachbuilder.

78
00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:34,700
My mum worked part-time
at the powder puff factory

79
00:04:34,780 --> 00:04:39,140
with my nan, making powder puffs
for compacts and things.

80
00:04:39,220 --> 00:04:42,580
Then the next street,
all my mates I went to school with,

81
00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:44,900
you know,
we was always out playing football.

82
00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:49,260
It's got very high-tech,
there's a goalmouth painted,

83
00:04:49,340 --> 00:04:51,140
but we just used to
put our jackets down.

84
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,060
And then there was one of the guys,
who was a latter member
of the Skatellites.

85
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,500
He was older than us
and he used to come
and play football in the street.

86
00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:01,620

Skinhead to me

87
00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:05,180
There was a lot of
second-generation West Indian kids

88
00:05:05,260 --> 00:05:08,020
around here, and it was
my introduction to bluebeat and ska.

89
00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:12,700
And their moms and dads were all hip
to King Tubby and the Skatellites

90
00:05:12,780 --> 00:05:15,300
and things like that.
In the summer, all the windows open,

91
00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:19,940
and you'd hear 'Madness'
blasting out by Laurel Aitken.

92
00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:23,820
But that was cool. And all the kids
had a little transistor radio

93
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,340
underneath your pillow at night.
We didn't have
a proper radio station

94
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,580
that played pop music, but there was
all these pirate radio stations
sprung up.

95
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,420
It was just really an exciting time.

96
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,820
And then this TV show come out,
'Ready, Steady, Go.'


97
00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:45,060
Bands like the Kinks
and the Yardbirds and Stones

98
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,020
and the Beatles, Smokey Robinson,

99
00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:51,660
Martha Reeves and the Vandellas,
the Supremes,

100
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:52,900
and the Small Faces.

101
00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:58,460
The Small Faces
were these kind of little herberts

102
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,580
from the East End of London,
but they were the height of cool.


103
00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:05,860
Some kids like me
picked up on that,

104
00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:08,780
all in this kind of mixture of stuff
that was going on.

105
00:06:08,860 --> 00:06:12,820
And that sowed the seeds
of my musical awakening.

106
00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:18,060
You know, I didn't have
any brothers or sisters,

107
00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:22,220
and getting a guitar
for Christmas when I was 10 or 11,

108
00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,500
you know, when everybody goes home
after playing football in the street

109
00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:27,780
at eight, nine o'clock at night,
you've got your guitar,

110
00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,660
and you got your transistor radio,

111
00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:32,700
and you start hearing songs
that you can relate to.

112
00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:41,740
When I was getting 15, 16,
we all got jobs

113
00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:44,940
in this department store
called Whiteleys.

114
00:06:45,020 --> 00:06:47,820
A crowd of us worked there,
and one Friday night

115
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,700
we went out to the Lyceum.

116
00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:53,140
There was a band called Ace.


117
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,100


118
00:06:56,180 --> 00:06:58,620
And we watched them
and stayed up all night.

119
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,420
That's when I started thinking,

120
00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:02,900
ooh, there must be
a little bit more in life

121
00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:05,660
than working in a department store.
Around about the same time,

122
00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:09,740
my uncle, who was a bit of
a ducker and diver with things,

123
00:07:09,820 --> 00:07:13,820
appeared round my nan's once
with this big, long flat case.

124
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,260
I said, "What's that?"
And he opened it up.
It was this Fender Precision bass,

125
00:07:17,340 --> 00:07:21,820
and it was beautiful.
Sunburst with all the chrome bits.

126
00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:24,380
I said, "Where'd you get it?"
And he said, "Don't ask."

127
00:07:24,460 --> 00:07:27,020
When you get a bass
and you get it home,

128
00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:29,660
right, it sounds like that.
(STRINGS VIBRATING)

129
00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:31,740
And you can't
hear the fucking thing.

130
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,740
And then what you do,

131
00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:35,860
you can kind of jam it
against the wardrobe.

132
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,420
(STRINGS VIBRATE LOUDER)

133
00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:39,140
You can hear it a bit more,
so you do that.

134
00:07:39,220 --> 00:07:41,820
The thing is,
is playing bass by yourself

135
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:42,940
is a bit like having a wank.

136
00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:45,380
Tree, tree, tree, tree,
and it's a bit boring really.

137
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,820
You need someone to play with.

138
00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:53,380

all or nothing

139
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,300
So I started to be on the lookout.

140
00:07:56,380 --> 00:07:59,220
I'd left school by then.
I was waiting to start art college,

141
00:07:59,300 --> 00:08:02,780
and I wanted a job. And I'd heard
about the shop down at King's Road,

142
00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:05,620
Let It Rock.
And it had big sign outside,

143
00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:07,820
it said too fast 'Too Fast To Live,
Too Young To Die.'

144
00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:10,540
And I walked in and it was like
my gran's front room from the '50s.

145
00:08:10,620 --> 00:08:14,100
They had a radiogram,
all these drape jackets hanging up,

146
00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:18,580
and some Brothel Creeper shoes.
Brothel Creeper is generally

147
00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:21,740
a suede shoe
with a thick crepe sole,

148
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,060
which supposedly makes no noise
when you're creeping
around a brothel.

149
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,140
What Teddy Boys wore.

150
00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:33,060
Well, a Teddy Boy
is from the name Edward.

151
00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:36,940
In the '20s and '30s,
the upper-class people of England

152
00:08:37,020 --> 00:08:39,180
sort of dressed
in this Edwardian look,

153
00:08:39,260 --> 00:08:41,460
because we had King Edward
at the time, you know,

154
00:08:41,540 --> 00:08:43,580
with longer coats
and velvet collars.

155
00:08:43,660 --> 00:08:46,940
All the rock and rollers,
when Bill Haley came over,

156
00:08:47,020 --> 00:08:48,820
they kind of adopted
this kind of look,

157
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,220
and they were Teddy Boys.

158
00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:52,140
We're Teddy Boys.
We like rock and roll

159
00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:54,500
because we think there's never
been a better music.

160
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,140
We like our style of dress,
because we think it's the best.
Let It Rock, it was basically

161
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,140
a sort of a Teddy Boy shop,
and there was a guy in there
and he said, "Can I help you?"

162
00:09:02,220 --> 00:09:04,820
I said, "You don't need anybody
to work here, do you?"

163
00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:07,860
And he said, "Well, as it happens,
I'm leaving this week."

164
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,580
And he wrote a number down.
He said, "Why don't you
call this guy up?" Malcolm.

165
00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:13,340
I then started
working for Malcolm McLaren

166
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,700
and Vivienne Westwood.

167
00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:19,860
It was like a clubhouse.
You know, we just rolled in.

168
00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:21,540
Vivienne and Malcolm
would lark around

169
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,420
and Glen was the Saturday boy.

170
00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:25,140
So we all got on
like a house on fire.

171
00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:28,500
We'd look after the customers.
They all came in just to talk to us.

172
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:30,500
Every now and again
we'd sell something.

173
00:09:30,580 --> 00:09:32,700
I still don't remember
putting money in the till.

174
00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:35,460
I used to say to Vivienne,
I think more stuff got stolen

175
00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:38,460
than actually got paid for.
But because it was so expensive

176
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,060
anyway, she always made money.

177
00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:42,820
Friday there'd be a delivery.
Word would get out.

178
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:45,060
Saturday morning there was a queue
of Teddy Boys

179
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,220
down the street, waiting to get
their Brothel Creepers
when they'd come in.

180
00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:51,460
And some of them
would order a drape jacket suit,

181
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,060
and I'd measure them up for it.

182
00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:57,540
Early '75,
they were getting a bit fed up

183
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,580
with all these Teddy Boys coming in.

184
00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:02,020
Malcolm and Vivienne
decided to change the shop,

185
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,420
and he come up with this idea, SEX.

186
00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:08,780
A similar kind of effrontery
that Teddy Boy clothes had,

187
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,700
except it would be new.

188
00:10:10,780 --> 00:10:12,620
So he wanted
to get rid of the Teddy Boys,

189
00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:16,620
move on, do this kind of
more kind of bondage-looking gear.

190
00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,100
And I helped
make the big sign outside.

191
00:10:19,180 --> 00:10:22,860
and they started to get
a younger crowd coming in.

192
00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:24,940
I never went there
when it was Let It Rock,

193
00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:28,780
but I went when it was SEX.
In fact, Malcolm even measured me up

194
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,380
for a pair of peg pants.

195
00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:34,540
The whole idea of SEX
was to put off the ordinary person.

196
00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:36,740
It was like to frighten you
into not going into it.

197
00:10:36,820 --> 00:10:39,580
And they even
had a bit of an attitude,

198
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,780
the people who worked there.
We did get a lot of sort of people
who, obviously,

199
00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:45,140
mistook the establishment
for another kind of place.

200
00:10:45,220 --> 00:10:48,020
In fairness for them,
it did say SEX outside, right?

201
00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:51,220
So you would get a few oddballs
and weirdos come in,

202
00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:54,020
and there was one guy came in
head to toe in rubber

203
00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:57,180
and he'd just come
and ask the prices of things,

204
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,540
never bought anything.

205
00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:01,060
He's obviously playing with himself,
right?

206
00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:04,260
Then he'd say, "How much is that?"
And I'd say. "Oh, how much is that?

207
00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:07,220
Well, that's... oh." Then he'd go,
"Ten pounds, ten pounds, whoa."

208
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,500
And then he'd rush out and then
you'd have to get the mop out.
We'd always roll our eyes

209
00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:14,700
and say, "Oh well,
clean up in dressing room three."

210
00:11:14,780 --> 00:11:18,660
It pissed off the Teddy Boys,
which was kind of the idea.

211
00:11:18,740 --> 00:11:20,780
When the Teddy Boys
suddenly realised

212
00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:24,700
that Malcolm had changed the shop
of being new age sex clothes,

213
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:27,300
they got really upset
and throw things through the window.

214
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,900
The windows were smashed
every Saturday. We wore
Brothel Creepers. They didn't like

215
00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:33,780
that we were taking their look
and destroying it.

216
00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:36,260
I don't like them.
They probably don't like me.

217
00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:38,980
The Teddy Boys would come along,
we'd have to lock the door,

218
00:11:39,060 --> 00:11:42,900
but they'd smash the window.
We were always terrified of Saturday

219
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,540
cos of getting beaten up.

220
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:49,100
But that's when things
really started beginning to change.

221
00:11:49,180 --> 00:11:52,900
It became the hippest place
in London on a Saturday afternoon.

222
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,220
And that's where Steve and Paul
started coming in
with a couple of their mates.

223
00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:58,300
Yeah, well Steve and myself
were really close.

224
00:11:58,380 --> 00:12:00,940
We grew up together.
Like brothers, if you like.

225
00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:03,060
I met him
when I was about 10 years old,

226
00:12:03,140 --> 00:12:06,620
and we were just unseparatable
for many years.

227
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,820
We went to the same schools.
Hung out at the same places,

228
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,780
getting into trouble.

229
00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:15,340
And he stayed around my house a lot,
because his home life

230
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,260
wasn't a happy place for him.

231
00:12:17,340 --> 00:12:20,660
At school, there was a gang of us.
There was me, Steve

232
00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:23,660
and a couple of other guys
and Wally Nightingale.

233
00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:26,460
And we used to skive off school
and go round to Wally's house.

234
00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:30,300
Sit in his bedroom
and listen to songs and play Faces.

235
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,980


236
00:12:33,060 --> 00:12:36,220
I was crazy about the Faces
and Rod Stewart.

237
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:37,460
I was kind of a bit obsessed.

238
00:12:37,540 --> 00:12:40,380
We were definitely keen
on getting a band together.

239
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,140
It became everything, for me anyway.

240
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,980


241
00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:48,020
Glam Rock
was really massive in the UK.

242
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,620
Bowie, Roxy Music, Queen,

243
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:56,300
T Rex, Mott the Hoople,
and we would go down Kings Road

244
00:12:56,380 --> 00:13:00,100
all doled up like we were in a band,
platform boots,

245
00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:03,300
flares, all stuff I had to nick,
cos no-one could afford it.

246
00:13:04,540 --> 00:13:06,540
We used to go into the shop a lot
and hang out there.

247
00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:10,140
We just felt comfortable.
Vivienne was great.

248
00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:13,700
Her and Malcolm were a great team.
They were interested in us as well.

249
00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:15,940
Malcolm was always asking,
where do you come from?

250
00:13:16,020 --> 00:13:19,100
What'd you get up to?
Hey! I've been nicked.

251
00:13:19,180 --> 00:13:20,780
I've gotta go outside.
He's nicked me.

252
00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:23,900
I always had to watch 'em
when they came in,

253
00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:26,460
I thought they'd nick something,
and Malcolm would humour them

254
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:28,660
a little bit.
"How's 'the band' going?"

255
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:32,980
Like that, looking at me like that.
And Paul said, "Well, I don't know.

256
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,620
We're trying to take it seriously.

257
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,100
But our bass player,"
he said, "he never turns up."

258
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,260
I went, "Well, I got a bass."

259
00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:42,460
And the next thing
we were sort of chatting away.

260
00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:45,260
Like, "What music do you like?
Who's your favourite band?"

261
00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:48,220
I said, The Faces. He said,
"That's our favourite band and all."

262
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,620
I thought he was a cool guy.

263
00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:52,580
I was impressed
that he worked at the shop.

264
00:13:52,660 --> 00:13:55,700
So a few days later
I'm going around Wally's house,

265
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,700
and they're like, "What you got?"

266
00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:02,380
And I went, "Uh, I've got this one,"
which is a Faces song, actually,

267
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,500
off their first album.

268
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,060
So I played it, and they're like,
"Whoa, you're in."

269
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,740
Well, I was impressed.
He could actually play, you know.
I basically just knew power chords

270
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,140
at that point,

271
00:14:24,220 --> 00:14:26,620
and I always thought
I was a better musician,

272
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,260
which I let him think. But I was
only about a week ahead of Steve,

273
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,780
you know. But don't tell him that.

274
00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:35,020
Initially,
Steve was gonna be the singer.

275
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,980
I went onto the drums and Wally
was playing guitar at the time.

276
00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:43,580
Wally confided in me, "Steve..."
He'd go and nick fur coats

277
00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:45,500
and ladies' handbags
and things like that.

278
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,460
He said, "It was my idea,

279
00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:49,260
if he'd nick guitars,
we could start a band."

280
00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:53,500
Wally's dad had the keys
to a BBC studio.

281
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:55,540
We used
to have the run of this place,

282
00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:58,860
and we had a big load of equipment
there

283
00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:01,540
procured from various places,
mainly by Steve.

284
00:15:01,620 --> 00:15:04,460
We started rehearsing
a bit more seriously

285
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:07,220
and people would come down
and be a bit of a party night

286
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,180
on a Saturday night
after the shop had shut.

287
00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:12,300
Somebody who was in there
a lot of the time

288
00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:14,340
and who was friends
with Malcolm and Vivienne

289
00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:16,820
was this guy, Bernard Rhodes.
He'd done some screen printing

290
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:21,500
with Malcolm, and they had sort of
an odd couple relationship.

291
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,260
Mates one minute and then
they'd have a ruck about something.
He was a prick. (CHUCKLES)

292
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,020
That said, you know,

293
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,460
I was a sort of working-class lad

294
00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:34,100
from the sticks, whereas Bernie
was much more art-based.

295
00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:37,340
He would always talk to you
and he'd make you kind of qualify

296
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:40,340
what you're thinking and why.
"Who do you like?"

297
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,220
'Well, I really like Faces."
"But why do you like 'em?"


298
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,900


299
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,220
"Well, I like them
cos they're alright."

300
00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:51,500
"No, that's not good enough. Why?
What are they doing?"

301
00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:54,380
That specific, and it really
made you narrow down

302
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,540
the way you go about things.

303
00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:01,020
Steve had come in and he thought
a cool thing to say was,

304
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:03,460
"Where's the action?"
It kind of annoyed Bernie,

305
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,060
he'd say something like,
"Would I be sitting here
if I knew where the action was?"

306
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:08,940
And it transpired,
the action was actually

307
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,300
where we were sitting,
because that was the beginning.
(PROG ROCK)

308
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,260
Rock was in a terrible state
in the '70s.

309
00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:32,660
It was grandiose,
and 25-minute guitar solos,

310
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,700
and 30-minute drum solos.

311
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,620
It all became prog rock,
progressive rock,

312
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,860
and I think mainly they progressed
by growing their hair a bit longer

313
00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:44,900
and their trousers
got a bit more flared.

314
00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:47,500
People that would potentially
be in bands

315
00:16:47,580 --> 00:16:50,740
were really put off by the fact
that you had to have

316
00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:54,900
this 20 years' experience of playing
and you had to be really good

317
00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:57,660
as a technical guitarist
before anybody'd take you serious.

318
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,060
This kind of became a bit indulgent.

319
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:05,740
(Dr FEELGOOD)

320
00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:10,260
There was this other music scene
called pub rock,

321
00:17:10,340 --> 00:17:15,860
where bands were playing local pubs.
Pub rock at the time was a reaction,

322
00:17:15,940 --> 00:17:18,460
I think,
against the big stadium rock bands

323
00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:21,660
and kind of slightly hippie music
that was going on at the time.

324
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:25,940
Every pub had a stage
and bands were playing all the time.

325
00:17:26,020 --> 00:17:28,620
You know,
you'd get bands like Ducks Deluxe

326
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,820
and Brinsley Schwarz
and Dr Feelgood.

327
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,380
We used to go, and never paid
to get in anywhere,

328
00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:36,340
just went around the back
and bunked in.

329
00:17:36,420 --> 00:17:40,420
They really were the return
to the roots of rock and roll,

330
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,540
you know, the Feelgoods
covering a lot of RandB.

331
00:17:42,620 --> 00:17:45,300
And they all
had kinda strange names.

332
00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:47,300
Like the drummer
was called The Big Figure.

333
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:49,780
You didn't know if they were
real-life criminals or not.

334
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:52,860
They were kind of dodgy.
We all loved the Feelgoods.

335
00:17:52,940 --> 00:17:55,860
They were very influential
to all of us

336
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:59,620
on the New York music scene.
They had short hair and suits,

337
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,220
and they looked mean,
and they were menacing.
This jangly rockabilly sound.

338
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:08,100
Kind of rough around the edges,
but not too heavy.

339
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,780


340
00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:14,820
Pub rock was sort of
quite a vital part of change,

341
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,700
really.
Collectively,
we'd all kind of go out to check out

342
00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:20,620
some of these
things that were going on.

343
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,220


344
00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:28,460
By that time, the Alex Harvey Band
had a big hit

345
00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:31,740
with a cover of a Tom Jones song
called 'Delilah.'

346
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:37,380

that I passed by her window

347
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,740
Going from playing little pubs
on the pub rock scene,
they were playing Hammersmith Odeon.

348
00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:47,380
So I went and took Malcolm,
and while we're sitting there,

349
00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:50,380
he said, "Um, how much does it cost
to get in?"

350
00:18:50,460 --> 00:18:53,580
Back then it was like 75 pence,
which is not even a pound.

351
00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:56,540
He went, "Oh." He said,
"How many people does this hold?"

352
00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:59,100
I said, "I don't know,
two and a half, 3,000?"

353
00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:01,700
He went, "Let's have a meeting
about the band tomorrow."

354
00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,580
Cos he could smell
that there was a money involved.

355
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:10,460
When I started a playing
with Wally and Steve and Paul,

356
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,420
they weren't the Sex Pistols,
and they'd thrown around
a couple of names.

357
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,900
One was the Swankers,

358
00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:20,140
and also they were
toying with the name the Strand,

359
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:21,900
which was named
after a Roxy Music song.

360
00:19:21,980 --> 00:19:24,820
* Do the strand, love

361
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:30,420
Malcolm came up with some ideas.
Creme De La Creme. Kid Gladlove.

362
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,220
Oof, don't know
where he got that one from.

363
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:38,820
The Damned.
And QT Jones And His Sex Pistols.

364
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,660
But me and Wally
didn't wanna be in a band

365
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:45,460
that was something and something.
So we sort of conspired in the pub

366
00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:48,300
and said, "Let's just
drop the QT Jones thing,

367
00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:50,780
just be the Sex Pistols."
Which made sense,

368
00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:52,980
cos we were the pistols
from a shop called SEX.

369
00:19:53,060 --> 00:19:57,620
It was pretty straight in the UK
around that time,

370
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,700
and calling a band the Sex Pistols
was pretty outrageous.

371
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,490
In fact, very outrageous, actually.

372
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:12,580
to try and buy '50s-style clothes
for his shop

373
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:14,740
and met the guys
from the New York Dolls.

374
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:15,780


375
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:21,020
They played for me
this tape of theirs.

376
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:24,020
I thought it was the worst record
I'd ever heard.

377
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:26,260
But they were so funny,
it didn't matter.

378
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,340
I realised it didn't matter
that the music was bad.

379
00:20:28,420 --> 00:20:32,860
What mattered more was the fact
that they were so good at being bad,

380
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:37,620
and that gave me
a whole other attitude towards music

381
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,780
and it locked in my own thoughts
about what was important.

382
00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:43,860
And that was the presentation
of it all

383
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,420
and the attitude behind it.

384
00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:50,100
But because he'd been on the scene
a little bit in New York,

385
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:53,500
he was hip to a few other people,
the fledgling Ramones,

386
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:57,620
and Richard Hell,
and Television, the Heartbreakers,

387
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:01,060
and it's all kind of interconnected.
Malcolm would come back to England

388
00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:03,820
and he said, "If you want me
to be involved,

389
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:09,420
you gotta get rid of Wally."
He didn't look right, I suppose.
He had big glasses and funky hair.

390
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:11,940
It was quite ruthless, really.
But that's the way it was,

391
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,220
and we had a bit of
an attitude problem with Wally.
You know, I liked Wally,

392
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,660
and I would fight his corner.
Then one day when we were
sitting in the pub,

393
00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:22,500
Paul turned around to me, he said,
"I don't know why you defend Wally,

394
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:24,580
he's always trying
to get rid of you."

395
00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:26,940
So I went, alright,
that's that then. So Wally's gone,

396
00:21:28,540 --> 00:21:33,060
Steve's moving to the guitar,
and then he got Malcolm and Bernard

397
00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:35,540
involved with us a bit more.
That's the when we started

398
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,940
to be on the lookout for a singer.

399
00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:41,860
And on Bernard Rhodes' suggestion,
lookout for this guy called John.

400
00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:45,900
And this guy John came in the shop,
and it was John Lydon.

401
00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:48,820
They asked me cos they thought
I was a nutcase,

402
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:51,580
and they had no idea
what the hell they were doing.

403
00:21:51,660 --> 00:21:56,500
I went to a kind of a mock rehearsal
to see if I could sing or not

404
00:21:56,580 --> 00:22:01,860
in front of a jukebox, and I was
completely awful, and they liked it,

405
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,620
and that was that.

406
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,660
Singing didn't matter at the time.
Could we play? We couldn't
really play at the time.

407
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,580
Could John sing? Who cared?
We wanted to be in a band.
It was just the attitude,

408
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,980
and just clicked straight away.
The planets were aligned.
There was the Sex Pistols.

409
00:22:19,060 --> 00:22:22,620
But then a couple of days later,
Bernard Rhodes came in and we said,

410
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,660
"Oh, we found a singer, John."
He said, "Oh great.
You got the guy I wanted."

411
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,500
And a couple of days after that,
he saw John and he said,
"Well, that's not John."

412
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,420
He said, "No, the other John."
And there was another John,
and he'd seen... John Beverley,

413
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,860
aka Sid Vicious.

414
00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:37,420
They were all mates,
and there four of them.

415
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:40,580
There was John Lydon,
who became Johnny Rotten.

416
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,660
There was his mate called John Gray.

417
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:44,860
There was another guy
called John Wardle,

418
00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:48,460
who became Jah Wobble.
John Beverley became Sid Vicious.

419
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:50,820
But Johnny Rotten
was the leader of the pack,

420
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:51,940
so he was always John.

421
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:54,340
But there was something about him
that was like,

422
00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:59,780
hmm, trouble, with me,
Steve and Paul and John.

423
00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:02,380
But I think
John never saw it that way,

424
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,700
he thought it was three against one.

425
00:23:04,780 --> 00:23:07,740
But when he joined,
we started rehearsing regularly

426
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,420
and trying to work out ideas.
And back then we had four
music papers that came out weekly.

427
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,060
Well, I was flicking through the ads
and it was this lease for sale
of a rehearsal place

428
00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:18,740
in Denmark Street in London.
I showed it to Malcolm. He said,

429
00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:21,700
"Wow!" He said, "Call the guy up
and offer him £1,000

430
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,580
without seeing it." I said,
"You're mad." He said, "Call him."
So me and Steve moved in

431
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:29,020
and we had our own rehearsal place.
Hello. Uh, fancy seeing you here.

432
00:23:31,140 --> 00:23:33,740
Here we are.
We are in Denmark Street.

433
00:23:33,820 --> 00:23:36,980
This where we used to rehearse
downstairs. But come upstairs.

434
00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:41,260
The HQ, the centre of operations.
Has changed a bit,

435
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:45,500
cos it's gonna be part of
some swanky complex

436
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,700
for the 21st century.

437
00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:53,020
But what they've done is,
they've preserved all these drawings

438
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,900
on the walls that, I think,
Johnny Rotten did.

439
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,900
There's Malcolm, Malcolm Muggerage.

440
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,420
Fatty Jones.

441
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:05,060
Supposed to be Nancy there and Sid.
There was a little bed there.

442
00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:06,980
Steve had a bed there
and I had a bed here.

443
00:24:07,060 --> 00:24:09,660
And we'd hang out
and have a go at writing songs.

444
00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:13,660
It was a bit of a dump back then,
but it was home.

445
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,940
Well, the recorder was upstairs,

446
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,500
but we played down,

447
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:20,740
that's where we used to rehearse,
downstairs.

448
00:24:20,820 --> 00:24:23,060
That's where every song was written,
downstairs.

449
00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:26,380
Before that, I was just
staying round Cookie's house

450
00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:29,420
or various couches,
Malcolm's and Vivienne's place.

451
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:33,140
So when we got Denmark Street,
like, this is my place now.

452
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:37,100
It was rats there
and the toilet was outside.

453
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,500
I loved it, though. It was quiet.

454
00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:41,260
And then you'd go
down to Denmark Street

455
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:42,980
and it was like,
you are right there.

456
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,740
You could go to the clubs

457
00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:47,340
and then end up
just staggering back

458
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:51,020
to Denmark Street,
get up the next day and rehearse.

459
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:54,180
I was working at the time,
so I had to get up, go to work

460
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,580
and then come back.
I was tentative about,
do I really wanna be in a band?

461
00:24:58,660 --> 00:25:00,860
I was brought up in this world
where you left school

462
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,940
and you got a job, it was
a very straight world
where I came from.

463
00:25:04,020 --> 00:25:06,820
And so it was a dilemma for me.
It was.

464
00:25:07,780 --> 00:25:11,740
That's when we then
really started applying ourselves.

465
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:14,660
John always turned up and he always
had like a little carrier bag

466
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:19,060
with scraps of paper in it
with ideas for lyrics.

467
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:22,860
And Malcolm had always been going on
that we should write a manifesto,

468
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:26,380
and it goes back to his
sort of '60s agitprop days.

469
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,180
Now, one day I'd been having a go
at Steve saying, "I've been
coming up with a few ideas,

470
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:33,220
why don't you come up
with something?"

471
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,540
And he sort of played
a couple of things,
they weren't that good.

472
00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:39,700
And he went, "Oh, you're so clever,
what you got then?" I just played...

473
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,580
And he went, "Yeah?"

474
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,780
And I went.

475
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,460
And he went, "Yeah?"

476
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,500
(ONE STRING TWANGS)

477
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:53,660
"Yeah?"
(ANOTHER STRING VIBRATES)

478
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:58,220
He went, "Oh, I like that."
He said, "What comes next?"

479
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,860
(STRINGS RIFFING)

480
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,580


481
00:26:08,660 --> 00:26:11,900
That's when John said,
"Finally, you've got something

482
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:12,980
to go with these lyrics."

483
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,340


484
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,460


485
00:26:19,540 --> 00:26:22,340
When I got in the studio,
I wrote the words to that

486
00:26:22,420 --> 00:26:25,220
in 20 minutes,
straight off the top of my head.

487
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,300


488
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,620


489
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,460


490
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,020


491
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,540
This used to be
Saint Martin's School of Art.

492
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:51,180
My foundation year,
studio was the one on the left,

493
00:26:51,260 --> 00:26:53,780
and the gig we did
was right up the top.

494
00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:56,660
And that is where the Sex Pistols
did their first show.

495
00:26:56,740 --> 00:27:00,260
We'd been rehearsing
for a couple of months by then,

496
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:04,340
feeling we was getting something
together. Come on Malcolm,
get us some gigs. Nothing.

497
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,460
No, no, no, you're not ready.

498
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,180
Reading between the lines,

499
00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:12,220
I thought Malcolm has got no idea
how to get us a gig.

500
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,900
I approached the social secretary
at Saint Martin's,

501
00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:19,660
and said, can we play?
And they had this other band on

502
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,460
and there was supposed to be
a support band
who wasn't gonna do it,

503
00:27:22,540 --> 00:27:26,380
so we got the gig. And that band
was a band called Bazooka Joe.

504
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,420
We had been playing
for several years in pubs
around London.

505
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:38,740
We'd been hiring vans.
We'd bought our own equipment.

506
00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:41,140
We bought a PA system
on installments.

507
00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:43,940
We knew there was gonna be
a support band.

508
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,380
We didn't know quite who they were.

509
00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:50,180
Before then, I booked another gig
at Central School of Art,

510
00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:53,220
and that's where I met a guy
called Alexander McDowell.

511
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,300
I was social secretary,

512
00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:58,660
and I was booking rockabilly bands
or whatever,

513
00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:01,740
and this young man
walked in off the street

514
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,900
and said, "Do you want a band
to play for free tomorrow night?"
I went, "Sure." And then he said,

515
00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:08,580
"Come to Saint Martin's
and see us play."

516
00:28:08,660 --> 00:28:12,300
We had to go and get our stuff
in the pissing rain.

517
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:14,060
Wheeling it
down Charing Cross Road.

518
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,740
And then the lift was broken,
carry it all the way up the stairs
and set it up.

519
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:21,820
Bazooka Joe sort of had
a little bit of an attitude,

520
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:25,260
but they let us use their PA.
There was no stage.

521
00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:28,940
We were just set up on a flat thing.
There wasn't a lot of people.

522
00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:31,220
We plugged in
and made an awful racket.

523
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:36,940
I mean I only picked the guitar up
three months before.

524
00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:40,340
I was so nervous, I took
a Mandrax and a couple of pints,

525
00:28:40,420 --> 00:28:42,100
then it all kicked in,
and then we started.

526
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,260


527
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,540


528
00:28:49,620 --> 00:28:52,580
The lead singer was starting
to smash the equipment up,

529
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:56,220
and he started kicking the speakers.
They weren't even my speakers.

530
00:28:56,300 --> 00:29:00,020
I was still paying for them.
So, enraged, I leapt into the fray.

531
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:02,740
And there was a bit of a fight,
scuffle on stage.

532
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,740
It just all descended into chaos.

533
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:09,340
And they pulled the plug on us
after about 15 minutes.

534
00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:13,460
That is not true. We did not
pull the plugs on the Sex Pistols.

535
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,340
No, they did. I was there.

536
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,260
They took 'em off.

537
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,940
They pulled the fucking plug.

538
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,060
We only had a few songs,

539
00:29:23,140 --> 00:29:25,660
and so they didn't cut us short
by that much.

540
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:28,860
I remember thinking
that they weren't that good,

541
00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:30,820
but you know,
they had the last laugh,

542
00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:34,060
cos they went on to become legends,
and quite rightly so.

543
00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:37,420
It was something magical
that happened for me.

544
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:40,820
Like this is we're finally
doing something. This is it.

545
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:43,580
This is what I've been wanting to do
for many years, be in a band.

546
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,740
And John was great. I loved it.

547
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,740
Even though it was for 15 minutes.

548
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,420
Just seeing them at all
was just such a radical shift
in thinking.

549
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,660
The attitude
that was coming off the stage

550
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,460
was something we'd never seen.

551
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,740
And it was completely captivating,

552
00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:02,700
and almost immediately
we were cutting our hair

553
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,660
and trying to copy John.

554
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,860
And it was an immediate shift
into a visible expression
of discontent.

555
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,900
(REPORTER) All are aware
that Britain was in its worst
economic crisis

556
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,940
for more than 40 years.

557
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:18,700
Politically,
it was very suppressive.

558
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,580
Thatcher was extremely right-wing,

559
00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:25,860
and you were dealing with bombs
going off with the IRA,

560
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,780
and real unrest.

561
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,420
There are problems which have been
pushed underground for too long.
Today they have to be brought up.

562
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,780
People ain't got time
to think about the cosmos

563
00:30:35,860 --> 00:30:38,100
and the universe when they ain't got
any money to live off.

564
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,780
Yeah.
There was like a hung Parliament.
Everybody's on strike.

565
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,140
In London particularly,
a pervading air of hopelessness.

566
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:50,820
And now I just got this
sort of vacant kind of idea,

567
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:53,660
and then the 'Pretty Vacant' thing
came to me.

568
00:30:58,180 --> 00:31:01,580
(SINGS)
oh, so pretty

569
00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:06,940

But it needed something. A riff.

570
00:31:08,380 --> 00:31:11,860
And this is the Cambridge Pub,
where we used to hang out.

571
00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:14,580
And I'm sitting there having a pint
one lunchtime

572
00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:17,980
and a record came on the jukebox
and it was 'SOS' by ABBA.

573
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,660
That riff isn't in the song,

574
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:22,900
but it was something
that the bass player does,

575
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:24,980
he plays his octave thing.


576
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,020


577
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:30,660
And it gave me the idea
for the riff.

578
00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:33,220
And I just finished off my pint,
went back and went...

579
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,740
Ooh!


580
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,140
I gave John the set of lyrics,

581
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,940
which he seemed to like and sing.

582
00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:47,700
He said, "This is fantastic."
He said, "If we get it on the radio,

583
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:49,780
you give me a way to say 'cunt'
on the radio."

584
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,140
And I'd never even thought of that.
I was just thinking of 'vacant,'
with an A.

585
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,020


586
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,060


587
00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:03,020
It summed up the angst
and the chaos

588
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,300
that he felt in his community.

589
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:08,180
I mean,
that's part of our job as artists

590
00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:12,540
is to report on the news
of what's going on all around me.

591
00:32:14,620 --> 00:32:18,180
It reconfirms for us
that we're not alone.

592
00:32:18,260 --> 00:32:22,140
I saw a number of the early shows,
and going from doing covers

593
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:23,780
to like starting
to do their own songs,

594
00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:27,580
and they were these classic anthems.
I mean the first song I heard,

595
00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:30,220
I really realised was their own song
was 'Pretty Vacant.'

596
00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:38,700
(STREET-PORTER) When you stood up
and started singing the first time,

597
00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:41,020
what happened? I mean...
(MAN) Come on, John. Go on.

598
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:44,220
It was wonderful.
No, come on. People loved me.

599
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,060
They threw flowers.
And what sort of people
came to see you in the beginning?

600
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,300
Well, no-one knew us, the beginning.

601
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,700
We were just a regular band.
Turned up. Cos we used to turn up
with our equipment crash in,

602
00:32:56,780 --> 00:33:00,340
do the gigs. Nobody knew
we was playing until we got there.

603
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,900
We didn't even know, actually.
Yeah, there used to be
this magazine called Time Out,

604
00:33:03,980 --> 00:33:06,820
and I'm pretty sure
Malcolm would just go through it,

605
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,660
see what's coming up, and see a gig

606
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,740
and say, "Oh, you're playing there."
He never spoke to them.
We just used to turn up and say,

607
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:15,620
we're the support band.
People would go, "Oh. Oh, really?"

608
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:18,460
We'd go, "Yeah." "Well, come on."
But we needed other places to play.

609
00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:21,340
And Malcolm come up with this place
El Paradise.

610
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:23,980
It was a proper
old-school, seedy strip club.

611
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:28,060
Malcolm had hired this strip club
from the Maltese mafia

612
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,380
and, honestly,
it was an absolute dump.
We actually went and bought a bucket

613
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,700
and a mop and some disinfectant.
There was like a few punters
who'd just come in off the street,

614
00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:39,100
thinking actually there
was a strip show going on.

615
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,660
Malcolm was just taking
all the money, and we literally
had to run from the place

616
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,580
cos the Maltese mafia
suddenly turned up. But those
first early gigs were amazing.

617
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,300
They were so exciting to be at.

618
00:33:50,980 --> 00:33:53,100
They were learning
to play their instruments.

619
00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:56,660
(LAUGHS) You could tell.
But that's what was exciting to us,

620
00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:58,340
cos, like, oh man,
these guys don't care.

621
00:33:58,420 --> 00:34:00,860
That's the idea. Get up there
and learn to play.

622
00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:05,780
Rotten had
this great sense of humour.

623
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:08,540
They'd finish a song and he'd be,
"Uh! Now clap."

624
00:34:08,620 --> 00:34:11,100
Before the audience had a chance
to respond,

625
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:14,540
he'd be straight on their case,
and very entertaining.

626
00:34:15,980 --> 00:34:18,980
And started building up
a following. It was mainly people

627
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,500
who would come in the shop
on Saturday afternoon,
Steve Severin and Siouxsie,

628
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:27,540
became Siouxsie Sioux
from the Banshees. Sid, Billy Idol.

629
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:30,540
The scene was very small.
We were friends who used to hang out

630
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,460
and go and see all the music.
Caroline Coon of Sounds
called us the Bromley Contingent,

631
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,220
cos we were all from Bromley.
It's just the same
as when it was before,

632
00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:41,860
when they had the Stones
and the Who and they came along,

633
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,700
and they thought they were great
because they destroyed
everything that went before them.

634
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,540
But now they can't take it,
cos we're destroying everything
before us.

635
00:34:52,660 --> 00:34:54,660
I loved the Nashville gigs
especially,

636
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:57,140
cos you never knew
what was actually gonna happen.

637
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:01,540
Vivienne would sort of like
scream and shout and be rude
to a person who was next to her.

638
00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:03,820
Massive fist fights.
Chairs would be flying.

639
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,820
It was a great night.
A fight broke out in the audience,

640
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:10,500
and this guy took a photograph of us
fighting with this guy.

641
00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:12,540
But we was actually
trying to stop him.

642
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:14,500
But it became the cover
of the Melody Maker.

643
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:17,700
Looking back,
it was all part of the plan

644
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,220
to get them sort of noticed.

645
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,540
Doctors of Madness
were one of those bands

646
00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:24,780
that were around the pub rock scene
at the time, and everyone thought

647
00:35:24,860 --> 00:35:26,340
they were gonna be
the next big thing.

648
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,100

And Richard Strange on guitar
with the weird make-up,

649
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,860
very glam rock.

650
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,380
It's early '76, we're doing great.

651
00:35:35,460 --> 00:35:37,780
We're playing to 800 people a night
wherever we go,

652
00:35:37,860 --> 00:35:41,020
and I got a call from our agent,
"I need a favour from you.

653
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,100
I've got this guy driving me crazy
in London. He's got this band.
I can't think of anyone

654
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,740
who'd have him on the bill
apart from you."
The day of the gig came.

655
00:35:48,820 --> 00:35:52,220
We showed up there,
got out for a sound check,

656
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:53,980
and they wouldn't let us
use any monitors,

657
00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:57,260
and they were a bit like,
oh, brushed us off.

658
00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:00,460
The doors open
and the audience comes in.

659
00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:03,380
I said, "This is weird,
because the 800 kids

660
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,940
who've come to see us at the minute,

661
00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:08,700
they normally go straight to
the bar." And I'm watching them

662
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,740
and half come straight in
to see the support band.
Quite a few of the audience

663
00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:15,860
are wearing badges, or they've got
ripped clothes or something.

664
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:18,460
The lights go down,
ladies, gentlemen, the Sex Pistols.

665
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:21,500

Cos we ain't all there

666
00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:24,180

we don't care

667
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:27,100
And I knew someone had just moved
the fucking goalposts.

668
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:29,460
That generational change,
that baton,

669
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,340
had just been handed over.

670
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,060
Then the Doctors of Madness went on.

671
00:36:35,140 --> 00:36:37,460
But while they was on stage,
Steve went in the dressing room

672
00:36:37,540 --> 00:36:41,100
and spat in their stack-heels
and rifled their pockets.

673
00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:43,300
By the time
you get into the dressing room,

674
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,740
the Pistols have gone,

675
00:36:45,820 --> 00:36:48,580
and so has 12 quid
from my back pocket.

676
00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:52,820
Other stuff has been...
just been nicked, just gone.

677
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,860
So it was a really bad day.

678
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:59,620
Me career had gone and 12 quid.
(LAUGHS)

679
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:02,260
I'm sure they were most upset
with us,

680
00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:05,100
cos they thought they were gonna be
the next big thing,

681
00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:08,820
and it just kind of fizzled out.
But I paid him back.

682
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,220
(STREET-PORTER) Things
really started to move

683
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,460
for the Sex Pistols
when they were spotted
by promoter Ron Watts,

684
00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:17,220
who gave them a booking
at the 100 Club in Oxford Street.

685
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,620
I saw them at High Wycombe.

686
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:22,620
It was interesting, because they
really managed to upset the crowd,

687
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,660
most of the crowd. It was
the only thing that didn't come
from the industry,

688
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:28,260
it came from the kids.
Something had to come from the kids.

689
00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:32,660
First gig,
there was hardly anybody there.

690
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,700
John was a bit out of it,
and he was singing all the words
to the songs perfectly,

691
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,420
but not the song we was playing
at the time. He said to me,
"Do you wanna fight?"

692
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,220
And I said, "Yeah, I'll fight you,
but maybe not
while we're on stage."

693
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:48,700
And he got off the stage,
and Malcolm followed him,

694
00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:50,580
and he comes skulking back
on the stage,

695
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,780
and he looked daggers at me.

696
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:55,380
I spoke to Malcolm afterwards
and I said, "What happened?"

697
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:57,540
And he said, "Well,
do you know what?

698
00:37:57,620 --> 00:38:00,500
He was outside at the bus stop
waiting for the number 73 bus

699
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,740
to go back home to Finsbury Park."
And I said, "What'd you say to him?"
"If you don't get back on stage,

700
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,540
mate, you're out of the band."

701
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:10,980
Tuesday night usually
was a jazz night at the 100 Club.

702
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:13,380
So people kind of came in
and their sort of mouths'd be...

703
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:16,340
They couldn't believe
what they were seeing,

704
00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:18,140
cos no-one
had seen anything like this.

705
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,740
And they was so anarchic,
cos they weren't really talking
to the audience.

706
00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:24,740
Johnny would be talking to Malcolm
off-stage. He'd go, "Malcolm,

707
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,740
why don't you get me a beer?"

708
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,460
Then he'd see someone in the...
there'd be like someone
coming off Oxford Street,

709
00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:33,700
all in denim, with flares,
long hair,

710
00:38:33,780 --> 00:38:36,860
he'd go, "Oh, look at you
with your flares and your long hair.

711
00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:38,740
Why don't you go back
to your Melanie records?"

712
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,180
(HECKLER YELLS) You fucking....

713
00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:42,900
Sit down! Yeah!
(MIC FEEDBACK)

714
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,220
Fucking old hippies all over again.

715
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,780
Rotten's attitude
was off the charts.

716
00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:53,380
But then Glen's kind of adding
a musicality to it,

717
00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:56,700
which felt, this is part of
what makes groups great

718
00:38:56,780 --> 00:39:00,540
is the individual characteristics
of the people in the band.

719
00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:03,420
And then watching them
week by week progress

720
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,180
was really exciting.

721
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,100
People say they can't play,

722
00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:09,820
and the Pistol songs are largely
three-chord songs,

723
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:13,900
but, boy they can really play,
and it absolutely rocks.

724
00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:18,460
The hardest thing to have
is to have a sound that's your own.

725
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,140
The Sex Pistols certainly had that.

726
00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:23,700
I can tell in eight bars
if it's Steve or Glen or Paul.

727
00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:26,100
When John sings,
of course you know it's him.

728
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,500
He's got a very unique sound.
We sound like that
as we'd actually learned to play

729
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,700
together at the same time.
I don't know where
our sound came from, to be honest.

730
00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:36,900
It was an amalgamation
of lots of different things.

731
00:39:36,980 --> 00:39:40,020
It's just a natural primal scream,
I guess.

732
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,340
They never really played too fast.

733
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:44,580
They weren't trying to emulate
the Ramones in that way.

734
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:47,180
There was more of a groove.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

735
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,180
There was none of that. And we loved
beats that went bush, bash,
buhbuhbash

736
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,500
I liked hard, fast, simple chords.

737
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:56,540


738
00:39:58,780 --> 00:40:02,740
Steve used to break into
Ronnie Wood's house in Richmond

739
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,140
and have a go in his guitar
and leave a little note saying,
'Steve was here.'

740
00:40:06,220 --> 00:40:09,420
And Steve, I think, was kind of
going for that kind of sound.

741
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,220
But one of the best things
I've ever read in this
article somewhere it said,

742
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,980
Steve's guitar sound
is the sound of him
paying his stepfather back.

743
00:40:17,060 --> 00:40:20,340
Which is kind of quite heavy,
but probably true.

744
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,500


745
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,820
What we was was just us together.

746
00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:28,300
That's the way it turned out.
No-one was telling us

747
00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:31,140
we have to play a certain way
or anything.

748
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,290
Malcolm didn't even do that.

749
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,140
I mean, it... you just knew
it's Glen's bassline,

750
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,340
and you knew it starts the song off.

751
00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:46,260
It made you wanna write songs too,
that's so good.

752
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,300


753
00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:57,660
Early summer of '76,
the word was out.

754
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:59,340
People wanted something different.

755
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,020
And once we came along,

756
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:04,300
it kind of opened
the doors of possibility.

757
00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:07,460
You don't have to be
a fantastic musician.

758
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,180
You don't have to be old.

759
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,500
You don't have to been
in the music business years.
You can just get a guitar,

760
00:41:12,580 --> 00:41:15,300
play for a few weeks
and go on the stage and do it.

761
00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:24,340
Well, there's no question
that the Pistols came first.

762
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,500
They were the trigger for all of it.

763
00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:28,260
I mean,
it was happening really fast.

764
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,780
There was this small group of us

765
00:41:30,860 --> 00:41:34,980
that were looking different
and voicing our opinion.

766
00:41:35,060 --> 00:41:37,300
Nobody that wanted
a successful career

767
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,500
in the music business
would turn around and criticise
the music industry, the government,

768
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:46,140
the police, the Queen.
That wasn't how you got successful.

769
00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:50,060
And so we had nothing to lose.
You know, what are they gonna do?

770
00:41:50,140 --> 00:41:53,740
Except put us back on the dole
and take the clothes off our back.

771
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,460
It was a great leveller,
cos it wasn't
about musical virtuosity.

772
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,740
It was about keeping it real,
and still being creative
with maybe limited skills.

773
00:42:01,820 --> 00:42:04,820
I remember rehearsing
at Denmark Street once

774
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:07,820
and the door opened,
and Bernard Rhodes come in

775
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,500
with this bunch of guys.
Then he met me.
Then he met you. We met him.

776
00:42:12,580 --> 00:42:14,820
Hand in hand with the Sex Pistols
was the Clash.

777
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:17,140
It was Malcolm McLaren
and Bernie Rhodes

778
00:42:17,220 --> 00:42:20,580
in constant competition
to see who could up the other one.

779
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,340
Him and Malcolm had this idea

780
00:42:23,420 --> 00:42:25,060
that if you had one band,
it was an oddity,

781
00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:27,820
if you had two bands
that was kind of curious.

782
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:33,460
But if you had three bands,
it was a movement.


783
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,100
The Clash were more political.

784
00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:40,260
That was kind of their thing.
I loved the Clash, by the way.

785
00:42:40,340 --> 00:42:42,380
We saw the flyer.
It was a midnight special

786
00:42:42,460 --> 00:42:44,580
that was happening.
Got the Sex Pistols playing,

787
00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:46,580
supported by a band
that hadn't played before

788
00:42:46,660 --> 00:42:49,260
called the Clash.
And a new band from Manchester

789
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:53,340
called the Buzzcocks. The Pistols
was something completely different.

790
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:55,300
There was real anarchy
when they came on.

791
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:58,140
I mean, Johnny smashed his mouth
on the mic

792
00:42:58,220 --> 00:43:00,860
and had to run into the toilet,
cos he'd knocked his tooth out.

793
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,860
It changed my life, that show.

794
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,500
We went back to school

795
00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:07,940
and we started to form
what became Spandau Ballet.

796
00:43:08,020 --> 00:43:11,180
(INTERVIEWER) What about the word
'punk?' It means worthless, nasty.

797
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:13,420
Johnny Rotten,
are you happy with this word?

798
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,500
No. The press gave us it.

799
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,820
It's their problem, not ours.

800
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,460
We never called ourselves Punk.

801
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,220
Hang on a second, this word 'punk,'

802
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:25,420
it didn't exist as a word
when we formed.

803
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,900
They did big articles on us

804
00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:29,860
and they come up with
this word 'punk.'

805
00:43:29,940 --> 00:43:33,540
And if you look up what it means,
it's not particularly savoury.

806
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,180
And who wants to be called a punk?

807
00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:45,100
Punk has always been
a term of maximum derision.

808
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:50,100
I'd read stories of this
new music movement emerging,

809
00:43:50,180 --> 00:43:53,500
Punk Rock, and they'd all say,
yeah, we listened to the MC5,

810
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,180
and I'd rip the magazines up
and flush them down the toilet,
cos I didn't want anyone

811
00:43:57,260 --> 00:44:00,900
to associate me
with this Punk music movement.

812
00:44:01,860 --> 00:44:05,340
When Punk came out,
I didn't really like it.

813
00:44:05,420 --> 00:44:07,820
But I loved
the excitement it generated,

814
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:12,140
and the enthusiasm that's behind it.
But the music I felt was not for me.

815
00:44:12,220 --> 00:44:15,900
I don't believe in swearing
and spitting and gobbing everywhere.

816
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,940
Punk rock's really taken off

817
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,940
both in London and in New York.

818
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,660
And although anyone
thinks punk is that great a name
for it, it seems to have stuck.

819
00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:27,660
There was a huge,
strong music press

820
00:44:27,740 --> 00:44:32,660
that thrived
on exposing all of this energy,

821
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:34,700
this change, this fashion.

822
00:44:34,780 --> 00:44:37,580
It was very prevalent
and spread around the country

823
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,780
really quickly.
It's actually music
born out of a frustration

824
00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:43,860
to get something across
that is of their own.

825
00:44:43,940 --> 00:44:46,100
You're also
trying to shock everyone.

826
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,540
Your clothes are bizarre.
They ain't bizarre to young kids.
Possibly.

827
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:51,660
I don't have a safety pin
through my nose.

828
00:44:51,740 --> 00:44:54,980
McLaren borrowed the label 'punk'
from New York,

829
00:44:55,060 --> 00:44:57,020
where it described
a very particular trend

830
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,780
in outrageous clothes.

831
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,900
But London Punk was very different.

832
00:45:01,980 --> 00:45:05,660
Raw, working-class
and deliberately anti-Establishment.

833
00:45:05,740 --> 00:45:09,260
We tapped into a feeling of unrest
in the country,

834
00:45:09,340 --> 00:45:12,500
without a doubt, with all the kids.
They were all cutting their hair,

835
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,660
tearing up their T-shirts.

836
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,820
I wanted to do something for me.

837
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,460
Cos look at me now, I'm nothing.

838
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,300
Vivienne created something extreme.

839
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,740
Something they could feel that they
were actually doing something in.
You can be cynical about the Pistols

840
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,260
and say they were a boy band
that was sort of dressed
by McLaren and Westwood.

841
00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:34,940
But boy, were we jealous that they
had access to those clothes,

842
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:37,740
cos those clothes
were magnificently heroic.

843
00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:40,060
I mean,
I was really annoyed with the Clash.

844
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:42,740
Cos when we had a rehearsal place
in Denmark Street,

845
00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:44,380
I decided
to paint the ceiling white.

846
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,340
But I only had one pair of trousers
and I got paint on them,
and I couldn't get it off.

847
00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:51,500
I thought,
I'll just put more paint on it,

848
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,980
and then it became
this Jackson Pollock thing.
When the Clash played the 100 Club,

849
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,420
they had a full-on
Jackson Pollock look,
and they'd sort of nicked my idea.

850
00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:06,780
Some of these bands had started
doing a few tiny little gigs,

851
00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:10,300
and we assembled them all
for this Punk festival.

852
00:46:10,380 --> 00:46:12,700
And there were all these
other bands playing

853
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,460
and the Clash played there.

854
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,500
Siouxsie did her first gig.

855
00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:19,100
Had you sung before?
Not on stage, no.

856
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,020
Did you think that was important?

857
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,020
Um...no.

858
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:27,620
And who was backing you up?
Sid Vicious on drums,

859
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,900
Steve Severin on bass...

860
00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:32,980
It was two nights. One night
was headlined by the Sex Pistols,

861
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:34,740
and the second night
was headlined by me.

862
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,220


863
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,300


864
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:43,940
None of those bands
had had any records out.

865
00:46:44,020 --> 00:46:45,940
If Malcolm
wanted to promote a festival,

866
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,500
he had to have a bankable name.
Cos I'd had my 'Motorbikin'' record
the year before,

867
00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:52,340
Malcolm said, "Well
you gotta come and play."

868
00:46:52,420 --> 00:46:55,100
And then one day I got a call
from a friend of mine,

869
00:46:55,180 --> 00:46:57,820
Chrissie Hynde,
she used to work in Malcolm's shop.

870
00:46:57,900 --> 00:46:59,900
She said, "You gotta
come and see this band."

871
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:01,180
And it was the Sex Pistols.

872
00:47:01,260 --> 00:47:03,620
I was quite impressed
with Steve Jones,

873
00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:06,940
who was attacking his guitar
and kept breaking strings,

874
00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:09,860
and yet never went out of tune
and still sounded great.

875
00:47:09,940 --> 00:47:13,300
I said to Malcolm, "I know
what a record company would want

876
00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:17,580
to sign you. They would want
a three-song demo. I can do that."

877
00:47:17,660 --> 00:47:21,940
And we went in the studio
called Majestic in South London.

878
00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:23,780
And so we set up
and ran a few run-throughs.

879
00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:27,700
And I told the engineer, take it.
And he said, "Come in and listen."

880
00:47:27,780 --> 00:47:30,620
And we said, "No, no, no, no, no,
we haven't recorded it yet."

881
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:33,180
He said, "No, we have." And we said,
"No, we can't have done.

882
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,220
You didn't put the red light on."
And of course, it sounded great.
He said he didn't put the red on

883
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,900
because it was our first time
in the studio and he didn't want us
to get red light fever,

884
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,460
he called it, where you get uptight
and you start making mistakes.
By five o'clock in the afternoon,

885
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:49,300
we had three songs down.


886
00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:52,220

cos you're all too clear

887
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:54,460

there's something wrong with you

888
00:47:54,540 --> 00:47:58,420
Shortly after that, they did
more recordings with Dave Goodman.

889
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:01,500
Dave suggested
that we use the rehearsal place

890
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,500
in Denmark Street,
and he had a four-track Revox
reel-to-reel tape recorder

891
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,020
and recorded the band live in there.

892
00:48:09,100 --> 00:48:13,020
It was good with Dave,
because there was no time pressure.

893
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:16,580
So we was experimenting a lot more.
Doing bubble sounds

894
00:48:16,660 --> 00:48:19,980
on a teapot for 'Submission'
and overdubbing a bit more.

895
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,140
And then he suggested to Malcolm,
a bit more money, we could get
a proper studio

896
00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:29,100
and record the vocals there,
and mix it,

897
00:48:29,180 --> 00:48:31,020
and that became
what is the 'Spunk album.

898
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,220


899
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,140


900
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,420
It wasn't sonically the best,

901
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,580
but there was some great ideas.

902
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:44,260
Alright, what should we do?
Should we just sing with...

903
00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:46,980
Every time we was having a go
at recording 'Anarchy,'

904
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,060
and when there was a break,
I'd be on the piano going,
dun, dundadun.

905
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,740
I had this thing, dunda.

906
00:48:52,820 --> 00:48:55,060
And they're going,
"Glen, for fuck sake, shut up."

907
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,180
"No, I've got something."
I went home, picked up my guitar
and found the riff.

908
00:49:08,420 --> 00:49:12,820
So I had the beginnings of the riff
for 'God Save The Queen.'

909
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,140


910
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,420
When I came up with the riff,

911
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,580
I could always imagine
Steve doing it with a bit more,
(IMITATES ELECTRIC GUITAR))

912
00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:26,500
It was like a beneficial
kind of partnership.

913
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,740
And then John had some lyrics for it

914
00:49:28,820 --> 00:49:31,100
and then we kind of argued
over how to arrange it.

915
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,300


916
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,020


917
00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:42,300

We argued morning, noon and night.

918
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,780
But you have to, because that's
what being in a band is all about,
diversity.

919
00:49:46,860 --> 00:49:51,740
I never liked anything he ever did,
and he thought the same about me.

920
00:49:51,820 --> 00:49:54,700
And we'd meet in the middle,
and it would make for good records.

921
00:49:54,780 --> 00:49:57,340
We argue so much
that the frustration comes up

922
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,900
when we actually play it.
To me, if you listen
to the Spunk stuff,

923
00:50:00,980 --> 00:50:03,900
the bass-playing, that's where
the little bits of melody

924
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,980
and counterpoint come in.

925
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:10,260
The bass playing is by far superior
to the bass playing
that wound up on the album,

926
00:50:10,340 --> 00:50:12,100
which was kind of
much more methodical

927
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,380
and just kind of eighth notes.

928
00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:15,900
I don't think the rest of the band
appreciated him.

929
00:50:15,980 --> 00:50:18,660
You needed somebody
with a bit of musical know-how,

930
00:50:18,740 --> 00:50:20,940
and a bit of confidence
nd Glen had that.

931
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,660
Hang on. Dave Dew speaking.
This is Chris Parry.
Doug D'Arcy, Chrysalis Records.

932
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:27,180
They were a particularly ugly band.
That's dreadful.

933
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:30,500
I was the one
that picked up the phone

934
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:31,980
when Malcolm McLaren called.

935
00:50:32,060 --> 00:50:35,100
And so I went down and saw them
at the 100 Club.

936
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:39,020
This band
was doing something interesting

937
00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:41,540
and they were making great noises.
They had something to say

938
00:50:41,620 --> 00:50:43,860
and I talked my boss
into signing them.

939
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,300
the rest was troubled history.

940
00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:52,620
When we got the record deal
with EMI, it was, for me,

941
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:55,740
you'RE gonna go with this
or you're not.

942
00:50:55,820 --> 00:50:58,900
It was a big thing to leave
an apprenticeship at the time

943
00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:01,980
in a good job.
And everyone said, "You're mad.

944
00:51:02,060 --> 00:51:04,220
You'll never do anything
with this band.

945
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:06,940
They're rubbish, they can't play,"
et cetera.

946
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,300
But I knew there was
something good going on there.
Prior to us

947
00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:13,860
being presented
with a recording contract,

948
00:51:13,940 --> 00:51:16,900
we got presented
with a management contract,

949
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,780
and I kind of read through it,

950
00:51:18,860 --> 00:51:21,380
and Malcolm wanted to take 25%
off the top.

951
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,140
And Steve and Paul were like, "Oh."

952
00:51:24,220 --> 00:51:26,140
John wasn't there
and I mentioned it to John,

953
00:51:26,220 --> 00:51:28,460
and he said he was gonna sign it
anyway.

954
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:33,100
But he actually said to me
when we were signing it, he said,
"Glen, you've read it and I haven't.

955
00:51:33,180 --> 00:51:35,540
If there's anything wrong with it,
it's your fault."

956
00:51:35,620 --> 00:51:38,940
Me and Steve, we was just happy
to be in a band.

957
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,300
We didn't worry about contracts
and stuff like that.
They were trying.

958
00:51:43,380 --> 00:51:46,340
Malcolm definitely saw
an opportunity and milked it.

959
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,060
The first time
we played with the Pistols,
I think we got aid five pounds,

960
00:51:50,140 --> 00:51:53,420
and Malcolm wanted 25 quid
to use the PA.

961
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,100
You know, he could be such a cunt.

962
00:51:55,180 --> 00:51:58,980
But I quite always liked Malcolm,
cos he was a hustler.

963
00:51:59,060 --> 00:52:01,660
He was the fifth member
of the band, if you like.

964
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:04,340
The Svengali, the manipulator,

965
00:52:04,420 --> 00:52:07,380
and all those other terms
people level at him.

966
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,260
Look, most of them true, by the way.

967
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:12,780
After we signed to EMI,
we're straight in the studio,

968
00:52:12,860 --> 00:52:16,540
and because we'd done the demos
with Dave Goodman,

969
00:52:16,620 --> 00:52:19,140
we thought we'd give Dave a shot
producing,

970
00:52:19,220 --> 00:52:23,060
and Dave wasn't a proper,
fully-fledged producer.

971
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,580


972
00:52:25,660 --> 00:52:29,340
And we would, literally,
do 'Anarchy' in the studio

973
00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:32,700
a thousand times.
We wanted to get it right.

974
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:38,140
I wanted to make the heaviest song
that had ever been in the universe.
He was fucking stoned with weed.

975
00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:41,700
And we're like, this is a joke.
So effectively, we went on strike,

976
00:52:41,780 --> 00:52:44,100
and Paul Cook
suggested Chris Thomas,

977
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,820
who produced Roxy Music,

978
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:48,700
and Chris Spedding
had taken Chris Thomas down

979
00:52:48,780 --> 00:52:51,140
to see us at the 100 Club.
So he was up for it.

980
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:54,740
Maybe a week later,
we're in Wessex Studios.

981
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,500
Queen were there, and we walked in,

982
00:52:57,580 --> 00:53:01,420
and Freddie's in full tilt and like,
"Woooh, I'm sorry," you know.

983
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:04,220
But they were cool, Queen.
They let us have some of their time

984
00:53:04,300 --> 00:53:06,260
to record the single quickly.


985
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,020
And we did 'Anarchy' in two takes.

986
00:53:10,100 --> 00:53:12,420
That was it. He said he got us.
Cos Chris knew

987
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:14,540
when enough was enough,
and that it was good enough.

988
00:53:14,620 --> 00:53:18,100
And it's funny,
it finishes how it finishes

989
00:53:18,180 --> 00:53:20,940
because the tape run out.
That's why it goes, blemm.

990
00:53:21,020 --> 00:53:23,460
I think
that was one of the best times,

991
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:26,660
my whole time in the Sex Pistols,
was recording.

992
00:53:26,740 --> 00:53:28,900
That's the only song
Glen plays bass on

993
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,660
on 'Never Mind the Bollocks.'

994
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,220
When we were in the studio together,
it was just a question
of getting the music down,

995
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:38,140
and getting it down well.
They were professional.

996
00:53:38,220 --> 00:53:41,180
It was definitely not the image
that was publicised.

997
00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:44,140
Only a couple of days later,
as I opened the door,

998
00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:47,420
Freddie Mercury is like bending over
by the door,

999
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,100
and he was listening. Queen,
they were quite big
in the Sex Pistols career.

1000
00:53:52,180 --> 00:53:54,620
The whole reason
we did the Bill Grundy Show,

1001
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:55,860
Queen was supposed to do it,

1002
00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:59,180
but Freddie Mercur
had a bad toothache that day

1003
00:53:59,260 --> 00:54:02,620
and pulled out.
The famous Bill Grundy interview.

1004
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,340
Yes, I do remember it.

1005
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,420
We was in Kilburn rehearsing.

1006
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,100
All of a sudden
a phone call comes through,

1007
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:11,980
"We're sending the car for you."
Malcolm says, "If you don't do it,

1008
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,860
you don't get your wages this week."
Then we're in the studio
behind the cameras,

1009
00:54:15,940 --> 00:54:19,060
there's Siouxsie
and half the Bromley Contingent,

1010
00:54:19,140 --> 00:54:22,020
and it's like, hmm. And then
this guy comes on set, Bill Grundy.

1011
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:25,060
Punk rockers,
the new craze they tell me.

1012
00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:28,580
Now, Bill Grundy
was a really big deal guy.

1013
00:54:28,660 --> 00:54:30,420
He was Walter Cronkite
kind of territory.

1014
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,700
And he had a real attitude with us.

1015
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,740
Not the nice, clean rolling Stones.

1016
00:54:35,820 --> 00:54:38,700
You see, they're as drunk as I am.
They're clean by comparison.

1017
00:54:38,780 --> 00:54:40,540
They're a group
called the Sex Pistols.

1018
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,900
And the shit hit the fan.

1019
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:47,900
I am told that
that group have received £40,000

1020
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,380
from a record company.

1021
00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:51,980
Doesn't that seem to be
slightly opposed

1022
00:54:52,060 --> 00:54:54,220
to their anti-materialistic
view of life?

1023
00:54:54,300 --> 00:54:55,940
No, the more the merrier.
Really? Oh yeah.

1024
00:54:56,020 --> 00:54:58,860
Well, tell me more then.
We've fuckin' spent it, ain't we?

1025
00:54:58,940 --> 00:55:01,540
I don't know. Have you?
Yeah, it's all gone.

1026
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,460
Steve had found a bottle of wine,

1027
00:55:03,540 --> 00:55:05,780
and he's drunk pretty
much all of it to himself

1028
00:55:05,860 --> 00:55:08,740
and it's starting kicking in.
And it just went from bad to worse.

1029
00:55:08,820 --> 00:55:11,220
John swore accidentally,
he said 'shit,'

1030
00:55:11,300 --> 00:55:14,820
and he pushed him on it.
It's what? Nothing. A rude word.

1031
00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:17,780
Next question.
No, no. What was the rude word?

1032
00:55:17,860 --> 00:55:19,900
Shit.
Was it really?

1033
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,220
Good heavens,
you frighten me to death.
Oh alrighty.

1034
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,820
What about you girls behind?
Always wanted to meet you.
Did you really? Yeah.

1035
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,540
We'll meet afterwards, shall we?

1036
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,260
You dirty sod!

1037
00:55:29,340 --> 00:55:31,020
Go on,
you've got another five seconds.

1038
00:55:31,100 --> 00:55:33,620
Say something outrageous.
You dirty bastard.

1039
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:35,700
Go on, again.
You dirty fucker.

1040
00:55:35,780 --> 00:55:37,420
What a clever boy.
What a fucking rotter.

1041
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,260
Well, that's it for tonight.

1042
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,540
While the show's going on,
I could see Malcolm
just behind the camera.

1043
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:46,220
Malcolm would go, "Oh, no."
As we went off, he was white.

1044
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:48,420
He said, "You've done it now."
Dragged me out.

1045
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:50,380
We got in the car,
and as we're just pulling away

1046
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:52,180
a Black Maria turned up,
a police van.

1047
00:55:52,260 --> 00:55:55,220
There were these police,
they're rushing into the TV studio

1048
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,820
with their truncheons out and we're
sort of like waving to them.
What a (BLEEP) rotter.

1049
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,020
Well, that's it for tonight.

1050
00:56:00,100 --> 00:56:03,180
It was going out live
on prime-time TV,

1051
00:56:03,260 --> 00:56:05,780
just after the news
when millions of people watched it.

1052
00:56:05,860 --> 00:56:08,940
And I didn't know my dad
had called around the family saying,

1053
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:11,780
"Glen's gonna be on the TV."
(BLEEP) And we didn't speak

1054
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,500
for a year.

1055
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,460
It all got crazy very quickly

1056
00:56:16,540 --> 00:56:20,540
once the publicity machine
started rolling.

1057
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,700
The greatest technique

1058
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,380
involved in managing the Sex Pistols

1059
00:56:25,460 --> 00:56:28,260
was always
to create the right explosion

1060
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:30,660
and then know
that it was gonna happen.

1061
00:56:30,740 --> 00:56:33,740
And as a manager,
run into the toilet

1062
00:56:33,820 --> 00:56:37,180
and come out after the explosion
and say, "God, what's happened?"

1063
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:39,780
Really? I didn't notice that.
Although later on he said

1064
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,820
he had made all that happen, I think
he was terrified that he'd blown it
for them.

1065
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:47,340
(INTERVIEWER)
Why all the infamous language?

1066
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,700
Infamous language? You're joking.

1067
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:55,140
They were famous in England
before they even had a record out.

1068
00:56:55,240 --> 00:57:00,140
I don't think that ever happened
before in the music industry.
Punk was all about revolution.

1069
00:57:00,220 --> 00:57:04,180
It was an attitude. Then they became
a figurehead for that attitude.

1070
00:57:04,260 --> 00:57:08,060
And willingly or not, they became
the visible leaders of a movement.

1071
00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:10,860
(REPORTER) Unseen dangers
awaited punks in the dark.

1072
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,900
There was ramifications.

1073
00:57:12,980 --> 00:57:16,180
John got attacked
by more right-wing people

1074
00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:18,780
who thought
we were decrying the nation.

1075
00:57:18,860 --> 00:57:22,020
It was a very dangerous time
for us after the Grundy Show,

1076
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:24,060
and we were
public enemies number one, for sure.

1077
00:57:24,140 --> 00:57:26,300
They're trying to put it
across the country,

1078
00:57:26,380 --> 00:57:28,180
starting in Britain,
but we're not having it.

1079
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,900
That is why
we've given them a good hiding
every time we meet them.

1080
00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:34,900
I got attacked walking down
on Shepherd's Bush.

1081
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,660
I just came out of the station

1082
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,140
with my girlfriend at the time,

1083
00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:41,900
and these four rockabillies,
Teds, whatever you call them,

1084
00:57:41,980 --> 00:57:44,860
didn't like the fact
that I was wearing Brothel Creepers.

1085
00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:48,020
I said, "What? It's just a shoe.
Why, what's the problem?"

1086
00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:50,900
Anyway, bang, and I got attacked.
Yeah, ended up in hospital.

1087
00:57:52,260 --> 00:57:55,260
We had to watch our backs.
It was a pretty dangerous time.

1088
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:56,300
(SIREN WAILS)

1089
00:57:58,420 --> 00:58:00,700
You started taking your life
in your hands a little bit,

1090
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:03,860
wearing your punk threads.
It was almost like war was declared.

1091
00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:07,580
On Charing Cross Station,
I was kind of just looking off at,

1092
00:58:07,660 --> 00:58:10,180
I don't know, when the train's
coming. Next minute, (LAUGHS)...

1093
00:58:11,540 --> 00:58:13,220
..got punched
in the side of the face,

1094
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:15,260
and then I saw
a pair of black Brothel Creepers

1095
00:58:15,340 --> 00:58:18,940
walking away, so I knew was...
I got ambushed, you know.

1096
00:58:19,020 --> 00:58:21,060
(PHONE RINGING)
I mean, the national press

1097
00:58:21,140 --> 00:58:23,580
had exploited Punk
for its sensation value,

1098
00:58:23,660 --> 00:58:26,300
and the violence
really stems from their coverage

1099
00:58:26,380 --> 00:58:28,900
and the fact that they've
only really given coverage

1100
00:58:28,980 --> 00:58:32,020
to the more violent aspects,
not to any of the ideals,

1101
00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:34,550
and certainly not very much
to the music at all.

1102
00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:43,340
We had a tour planned,
the Anarchy Tour.

1103
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,860
Malcolm, he had that kind of idea

1104
00:58:45,940 --> 00:58:48,020
that we'd have
some kind of Punk Rock review.

1105
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,100
So we had the Clash, the Damned,

1106
00:58:50,180 --> 00:58:53,420
and he brought over
from the States the Heartbreakers.

1107
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:58,260
We were going around in this coach
from place to place.

1108
00:58:58,340 --> 00:59:01,660
As we're turning up to a show,
and then it was cancelled.

1109
00:59:01,740 --> 00:59:05,580
We were supposed to have
like 23 gigs or something

1110
00:59:05,660 --> 00:59:08,820
around the country,
and we're starting being banned.

1111
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,820
..one of the most reviewed
and reviled rock phenomena
of recent weeks...

1112
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:16,020
Do you really think Punk Rockers
are such a threat to society

1113
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,060
that you're justified
in banning their concerts?
We are responsible

1114
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,340
for public safety.

1115
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,900
There was such a storm around them.

1116
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:27,460
You couldn't do anything.
Even we couldn't do anything.
I remember one specific,

1117
00:59:27,540 --> 00:59:30,460
and they just came up
and threw us out immediately

1118
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,660
just because we were a band
on tour with the Sex Pistols.
(REPORTER) Mr Stabler,

1119
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,700
you can't watch
punk concerts in Newcastle either.
The decision was made

1120
00:59:36,780 --> 00:59:40,700
when we discovered it was mere
children watching the performance.

1121
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,140
Now, out of all those dates,

1122
00:59:43,220 --> 00:59:45,020
how many dates would you say
are there, look?

1123
00:59:45,100 --> 00:59:48,340
I think
we only did five or six dates,

1124
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,660
and we're lucky we got them.

1125
00:59:50,740 --> 00:59:54,140
We had to go to show that we wasn't
gonna accept their censorship.

1126
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,740
It was very frustrating.

1127
00:59:56,820 --> 01:00:00,540
We had a fair amount of journalists
following us round

1128
01:00:00,620 --> 01:00:03,060
and finding out
where we were staying.

1129
01:00:03,140 --> 01:00:06,060
And I went and got a cup of tea,
came back,

1130
01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:08,580
got on the coach first,
I had the window open slightly,

1131
01:00:08,660 --> 01:00:11,820
and I heard one saying to other,
"Oh, Fred, how'd you get on?

1132
01:00:11,900 --> 01:00:14,300
Did you get a quote from anybody?"
He said, "Yeah." He said,

1133
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:16,660
"I got two fucks and a shit
from Johnny Rotten."

1134
01:00:16,740 --> 01:00:19,700
Just sells their papers
putting us in it now.

1135
01:00:19,780 --> 01:00:22,260
You know what I mean?
Yeah. Put us on the front,

1136
01:00:22,340 --> 01:00:26,180
just sells their papers,
and it's bit stupid, really.

1137
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,380
Because we weren't allowed to play

1138
01:00:28,460 --> 01:00:30,900
and we was cooped up in this bus
all the time,

1139
01:00:30,980 --> 01:00:35,980
it started creating kind of problems
within the band.

1140
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,260
Became kind of quite factional.

1141
01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:42,700
Steve and Paul were always
a bit of a double act,

1142
01:00:42,780 --> 01:00:45,740
which I felt they were
always a bit stand-offish,

1143
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,620
they didn't kind of let you in.

1144
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:50,860
Maybe John felt a bit threatened
by it or Glen did,

1145
01:00:50,940 --> 01:00:52,380
I don't know. But yeah,
we were close.

1146
01:00:52,460 --> 01:00:55,900
I know what I think,
and that's all that counts to me.

1147
01:00:55,980 --> 01:00:59,340
I don't try and impress anybody
but myself.

1148
01:00:59,420 --> 01:01:01,580
It'd been a simmering thing
between me and John.

1149
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:07,820
I think, personally, cos... and I'm
not the only person who's said this,

1150
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:10,260
but, you know,
once he got his face in the papers,

1151
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,580
he became a bit more arrogant
and everything had to be his way
all the time,

1152
01:01:13,660 --> 01:01:15,580
and I thought we was in a band,
you know.

1153
01:01:16,660 --> 01:01:19,340
It is be hard
living up to your image sometimes?

1154
01:01:19,420 --> 01:01:21,980
What image?
I never thought I had one.

1155
01:01:22,060 --> 01:01:25,260
Well, what do you think -
I change from day to day.

1156
01:01:25,340 --> 01:01:28,220
There was always animosity
between John and Glen anyway,

1157
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,900
even back to the very early days

1158
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:34,140
when I was just standing
on the side of the stage

1159
01:01:34,220 --> 01:01:36,980
watching them, and John
would always give Glen shit.

1160
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:39,100
(INTERVIEWER) Do you feel
the publicity

1161
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,140
following the Thames Television
interview has been damaging,
or do you think it's helped you?

1162
01:01:43,220 --> 01:01:45,820
I don't think it's been damaging,
far from it.

1163
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:47,660
Whether it's helping us
is another matter.

1164
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,140
Later on, there was a frustration

1165
01:01:50,220 --> 01:01:52,500
that I found out that we could play
in certain places.

1166
01:01:52,580 --> 01:01:55,700
Went to see the Ramones
when they finally come over,

1167
01:01:55,780 --> 01:01:59,540
and some promoter asked me, he said,
"Hey, Glen, you can't play?"

1168
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,100
And I said, "No." He said,
"I'll put you on. Tell Malcolm."
So I tell Malcolm. He goes,

1169
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:07,580
"No, no, you're banned."
Hang on, I wanna be in a band

1170
01:02:07,660 --> 01:02:09,820
because I wanna be a musician
and I wanna play.

1171
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:13,180
I started to think there was
a bit of dishonesty involved.

1172
01:02:17,820 --> 01:02:20,780
We ended up in London
just before Christmas,

1173
01:02:20,860 --> 01:02:25,100
penniless,
without a real sense of achievement.

1174
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,220
And then the record company,

1175
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:30,980
while we was away on tour
and had got a load of shit,

1176
01:02:31,060 --> 01:02:35,180
backlash from the TV show,
and they pulled the record.

1177
01:02:35,260 --> 01:02:38,300
The ground floor was very unhappy
about that firing.

1178
01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:41,380
It was just the big bosses.
The way I read it was that EMI

1179
01:02:41,460 --> 01:02:44,340
was very close
to the British Establishment.

1180
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,860
You know, they had friends
in Parliament and all that.
And the head guy of EMI,

1181
01:02:48,940 --> 01:02:51,820
when not running the record company,
would have dinner with the Queen!

1182
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:56,420
(REPORTER) The anti-Establishment
Sex Pistols
called in the Establishment press

1183
01:02:56,520 --> 01:03:00,060
to protest what had happened
to them. (INTERVIEWER) OK,
you want to get your music across,

1184
01:03:00,140 --> 01:03:03,180
but do you feel maybe the fact
that you can't do that commercially

1185
01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:05,340
is because of the way
you've behaved? Oh no,

1186
01:03:05,420 --> 01:03:07,300
I'm not gonna
come down to their level.

1187
01:03:07,380 --> 01:03:11,860
The next thing,
we're on a plane to Amsterdam.

1188
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:13,460
We did a TV show there.

1189
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,940
And then we played at the Paradiso,

1190
01:03:16,020 --> 01:03:19,460
and then we went to Rotterdam
and played, and flew home.

1191
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,220
But you know,
things were getting bad.
Then John was on my case,

1192
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:26,540
and I was just beginning
to get fed up with the whole thing.

1193
01:03:27,820 --> 01:03:30,340
And I had a meeting
with Steve and Paul and Malcolm

1194
01:03:30,420 --> 01:03:32,500
in this restaurant
we used to go to in Covent Garden.

1195
01:03:32,580 --> 01:03:36,780
I'd found out they'd tried to have
a rehearsal with Sid,

1196
01:03:36,860 --> 01:03:38,740
and I wasn't supposed to know,
but I did know,

1197
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,500
and I thought,
well, that's out of order.
There's this big hoo-ha,

1198
01:03:41,580 --> 01:03:43,820
and Malcolm says,
it's all a big secret, man.

1199
01:03:43,900 --> 01:03:47,100
Come down to this pub
at such and such, you know.

1200
01:03:47,180 --> 01:03:49,260
And I thought
they were gonna do me over,

1201
01:03:49,340 --> 01:03:52,140
cos I didn't turn up
to one of Rotten's parties

1202
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,900
or something.
John sort of manipulated
the situation with Malcolm

1203
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,780
to get rid of Glen,

1204
01:03:58,860 --> 01:04:02,220
and whether he'd done it
because he wanted his mate Sid

1205
01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:05,020
in the band
so he could feel more comfortable

1206
01:04:05,100 --> 01:04:07,260
up against me and Steve,
I don't know.

1207
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,820
At this meeting Paul says,

1208
01:04:09,900 --> 01:04:12,540
"Look, we know
you're not getting on with John.

1209
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:15,620
Can't you just pretend
that you like him?"

1210
01:04:15,700 --> 01:04:18,980
And I thought,
I'm coming up with these ideas.

1211
01:04:19,060 --> 01:04:21,700
You guys don't really realise
what side your bread's buttered.

1212
01:04:21,780 --> 01:04:23,780
Why can't you guys
back me up a little bit?

1213
01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:27,100
And I said, "Then you want me
to pretend I like John?"

1214
01:04:27,180 --> 01:04:28,620
I said, "No,
I can't really do that."

1215
01:04:28,700 --> 01:04:33,460
At the end of the day, John said
he wasn't gonna... couldn't go on

1216
01:04:33,540 --> 01:04:36,780
with Glen in the band. And so
it was either the band broke up

1217
01:04:36,860 --> 01:04:40,660
or Glen left. It was
one of the only times

1218
01:04:40,740 --> 01:04:44,220
that John and Malcolm
were in sync with each other.

1219
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,740


1220
01:04:46,820 --> 01:04:51,420
And by that time,
the vast majority of the songs

1221
01:04:51,500 --> 01:04:53,340
on 'Never Mind The Bollocks'
had been written,

1222
01:04:53,420 --> 01:04:57,420
and that was kind of that, really.


1223
01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:59,620

I liked Glen.

1224
01:04:59,700 --> 01:05:02,740
We liked the same music.
I got along with him great.

1225
01:05:02,820 --> 01:05:04,980
I think
it just got too weird for him.

1226
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:08,820
I know Glen said he left.
Malcolm says he got fired.

1227
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,060
It was weird, and then Sid.

1228
01:05:11,140 --> 01:05:13,740
And we just carried on,
like, oh, alright, OK.

1229
01:05:13,820 --> 01:05:16,900
We kind of just
cowardly went along with it,

1230
01:05:16,980 --> 01:05:19,580
I guess,
to just keep everyone happy.

1231
01:05:19,660 --> 01:05:22,900
And in retrospect,
we should've maybe stuck up for Glen

1232
01:05:22,980 --> 01:05:25,260
and kept him in the band.
Who knows what would've happened?

1233
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:30,380
As far as I'm concerned,
I quit, and that was that.

1234
01:05:31,620 --> 01:05:33,820
I'd shaken hands with Steve and Paul
and Malcolm

1235
01:05:33,900 --> 01:05:37,260
before he sent the telegram
to the NME.

1236
01:05:39,140 --> 01:05:41,740
I thought it was
the stupidest fucking move

1237
01:05:41,820 --> 01:05:43,660
they ever made. They say
they threw him out

1238
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,580
because he liked the Beatles.
Fuck you
if you don't like the Beatles.

1239
01:05:46,660 --> 01:05:50,660
I never bought into
Malcolm's sort of PR

1240
01:05:50,740 --> 01:05:52,780
that you know, oh,
we've kicked him out

1241
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,900
cos he likes the Beatles.
But I think what Malcolm
was really saying is,

1242
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,900
we kicked him out
cos he's too musical. It proved
to me then at that point

1243
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,900
that this was not a band
that Malcolm had any interest
in having longevity,

1244
01:06:03,980 --> 01:06:07,020
musical development of any kind,
or even staying together.

1245
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:09,140
He wanted to destroy,
and he'd destroy you

1246
01:06:09,220 --> 01:06:12,860
by putting this crazy guy in on bass
who couldn't even play bass.

1247
01:06:12,940 --> 01:06:16,820
It felt to me that the musical heart
had been torn out the band.

1248
01:06:18,460 --> 01:06:21,900
Steve and myself were very concerned
when Glen left the band.

1249
01:06:21,980 --> 01:06:24,980
But we was pushed into a corner,
really, and we had no option.

1250
01:06:25,060 --> 01:06:30,100
I was left to write 'Holidays'
and a few others, 'No Feelings.'

1251
01:06:30,180 --> 01:06:33,420
It definitely
changed the dynamics, major.

1252
01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:36,060
I was the mug
who had to try and teach Sid

1253
01:06:36,140 --> 01:06:37,740
where to put his fingers
on the bass.

1254
01:06:37,820 --> 01:06:39,620
That's the last thing
I wanted to be doing.

1255
01:06:39,700 --> 01:06:41,780
Sid couldn't play bass.
But I mean, who gives a shit?

1256
01:06:41,860 --> 01:06:44,020
(MAN) You'd turn him down
in the mix.

1257
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:47,180
Sometimes we used to turn him off,
actually.

1258
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:52,860
We'd Elastoplast all the dials
on the M. He says,
"What you doing, Malcolm?"

1259
01:06:52,940 --> 01:06:55,780
"Don't worry, Sid.
You don't need to worry.

1260
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,620
You just keep talking to the girls."

1261
01:06:57,700 --> 01:07:00,820
John really wanted him in the band.
Me and Steve were, oh, OK,

1262
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,100
let's see how this goes.
He looked great, don't get me wrong.
He looked fantastic.

1263
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:08,580
Yeah, he was a face around town,
and when he first joined the band,
it was great.

1264
01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:11,340
He was really willing to learn
and learn the numbers

1265
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,340
and play and learn the bass.

1266
01:07:13,420 --> 01:07:16,860
The only thing missing with Sid
was fucking notes on the neck.

1267
01:07:16,940 --> 01:07:20,220
You know, pieces of tape,
this is a C.

1268
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:21,660
This is a G, you know? (LAUGHS)

1269
01:07:21,740 --> 01:07:26,380
This poor schmuck fucking got thrown
into the fucking circus.

1270
01:07:26,460 --> 01:07:30,300
He never contributed
to any of the songwriting

1271
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:31,700
or any of the recording.

1272
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:34,580
What more can I say?

1273
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,820
Even Sid himself would've said,
"I'm not really a musician."
We all knew why he was there.

1274
01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:42,220
He was the poster boy
for the punk movement.

1275
01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:45,620
Went and picked up my equipment
from our Denmark Street place,

1276
01:07:45,700 --> 01:07:48,860
and then a couple of days later
I'm down at the Roxy Club,

1277
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,660
and then somebody said,
"John's here." And I thought, oh,
alright. And I went out,

1278
01:07:52,740 --> 01:07:55,340
and I was going to the loo,
and he was there with Sid,

1279
01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:57,820
and John's going like that to Sid,
egging him on,

1280
01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:59,780
and Sid follows me into the loo,

1281
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:03,900
and he said, "I'm the bass player
in the Sex Pistols now." I said,
"Yeah, I know. Good for you."

1282
01:08:03,980 --> 01:08:06,180
He said, "What do you mean?"
He wanted to fight,

1283
01:08:06,260 --> 01:08:08,060
and John's sort of egging him on,
right?

1284
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,220
But he's outside in the hallway
and me and Sid are in there.
I said, "I'll tell you what, Sid,

1285
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,140
I'll give you some bass lessons
if you like." "Really?" "Yeah."
He said, "Aren't you annoyed?"

1286
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,940
"No, if they want you in,
that's the way it'll be."
And John's outside,

1287
01:08:19,020 --> 01:08:23,340
waiting for the sound of fisticuffs.
And me and Sid sort of come out,

1288
01:08:23,420 --> 01:08:26,860
practically arm in arm, laughing.
And John was like...

1289
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,860
(BURPS) Pardon me.

1290
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,780
(INTERVIEWER) So what do you do,
now that you've lost your record
contract?

1291
01:08:32,860 --> 01:08:36,380
You're still recording though,
aren't you? Yeah.

1292
01:08:36,440 --> 01:08:38,260
What's your next single?

1293
01:08:38,340 --> 01:08:42,140
Uh...


1294
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,460

(INTERVIEWER) And you were signed up
then with AandM?

1295
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,460
Yeah, for a week.
For a week!
We walked into AandM Records.

1296
01:08:49,540 --> 01:08:52,740
Sid collapsed
in the marketing director's chair.

1297
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:57,020
He was completely gone. He'd drunk
two bottles of vodka from 10 a.m.
to three.

1298
01:08:57,100 --> 01:09:02,140
It was like, this wasn't a group
that had entered this building.

1299
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:04,340
What had entered
was this fabulous disaster.

1300
01:09:04,420 --> 01:09:07,340
A couple of weeks later on,
Malcolm called me up and he said,

1301
01:09:07,420 --> 01:09:10,100
"Look, you know, I thought about it.
It's not working out with Sid.

1302
01:09:10,180 --> 01:09:13,220
I want you to come back
and kick down the doors

1303
01:09:13,300 --> 01:09:16,180
and be
the Sex Pistol bass player again."

1304
01:09:16,260 --> 01:09:18,300
I said,
"Well, I could do that, Malcolm,

1305
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:20,540
but you sent that telegram to NME

1306
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,900
saying I was sacked
for liking the Beatles,
I think it's pretty shitty, really.

1307
01:09:23,980 --> 01:09:26,580
So fuck you."
(CROWD CHEERING)

1308
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,300
(MAJESTIC MUSIC PLAYING)

1309
01:09:32,180 --> 01:09:36,220
(STREET-PORTER) The summer of '77,
the summer of the Jubilee,

1310
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,020
a time when the nation united

1311
01:09:38,100 --> 01:09:40,900
in spontaneous gestures
of patriotism.

1312
01:09:40,980 --> 01:09:44,500
A time when the then top 20
record charts were dominated

1313
01:09:44,580 --> 01:09:47,420
by this original version
of the national anthem

1314
01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:48,700
by the Sex Pistols.

1315
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:50,740


1316
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,740


1317
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,100


1318
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,900


1319
01:10:01,140 --> 01:10:03,700

We didn't write the song

1320
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,460
to coincide with the Jubilee at all.

1321
01:10:05,540 --> 01:10:08,340
We wrote that song, I think,
a year before, near enough,

1322
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:11,300
it just came out at that time.
(REPORTER) ..Majesty
and Prince Philip,

1323
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:15,020
to the thunderous cheers
of hundreds of thousands
of her subjects lining the route.

1324
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:21,660
You can't play on the land,
and you can't hear them in the air.

1325
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,260
So let's put them on a bloody boat!

1326
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:24,940
This is insane, he whole thing.

1327
01:10:25,020 --> 01:10:27,220
And let's
follow the Queen's flotilla.

1328
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,700


1329
01:10:30,780 --> 01:10:33,340
When the six Pistols
went after the Queen,

1330
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:34,420
It just wasn't done.

1331
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:39,540
'God Save The Queen, and played it
at the Queen's Jubilee?

1332
01:10:39,620 --> 01:10:44,140
No, no-one has ever done anything
that ballsy.

1333
01:10:44,220 --> 01:10:46,140
That actually came out
after I'd left the band.

1334
01:10:46,220 --> 01:10:49,180
The song was written and we were
playing it, but originally

1335
01:10:49,260 --> 01:10:51,220
it was called 'No Future.'
And to me,

1336
01:10:51,300 --> 01:10:55,140
although the first line of the song
is "God save the Queen,"

1337
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,620
the main thing to me is, no future.
There's no future.
Not that that's a good thing,

1338
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,740
but there's no future
unless you try and do something
about it for yourself,

1339
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,500
which is what we were trying to do.

1340
01:11:05,580 --> 01:11:08,980
We didn't realise how much
we were gonna shake things up.

1341
01:11:09,060 --> 01:11:11,460
Questions
in the Houses of the Parliament

1342
01:11:11,540 --> 01:11:13,700
and stuff like that going on.
You know, it was crazy.

1343
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:18,660
But we had a lot of support
throughout the country.
(U.S. REPORTER) The current record,

1344
01:11:18,740 --> 01:11:21,180
'God Save The Queen,'
is at number one today.

1345
01:11:21,260 --> 01:11:23,940
But the IBA, which administers
the Broadcasting Act,

1346
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:26,540
has advised us that,
particularly at this time,

1347
01:11:26,620 --> 01:11:29,140
this record
is likely to cause offence

1348
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:34,020
to a number of our listeners
and have asked us not to play it
in our normal programming.

1349
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:35,700
Not only would they not play it
on the BBC,

1350
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,140
but they wouldn't even
print the name in the chart.
Going into Woolworths,

1351
01:11:39,220 --> 01:11:42,700
they had the Top 10 on a pegboard,
and then the number one was blank.

1352
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:47,140
When you're that passionate
about what you're doing

1353
01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:50,300
that you're willing
to step over the edge

1354
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,300
and confront the world around you,

1355
01:11:53,380 --> 01:11:56,020
you will generate
an equally strong reaction

1356
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:57,180
in the opposite direction.

1357
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,300
(INTERVIEWER) Are you anti-royalist?

1358
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,220
We are.

1359
01:12:01,300 --> 01:12:03,260
I've never met the Queen
in me life,

1360
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,100
so why should I wanna know her?

1361
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,060
Where's that beer gone?

1362
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,620
I mean, do you think, well, let's -

1363
01:12:09,700 --> 01:12:11,940
We don't bother about her.
We don't bother about her.

1364
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,620
We just don't care about the Queen.
She don't give a fuck about us,
does she?

1365
01:12:16,660 --> 01:12:19,300
It was great that we knew
we were doing something

1366
01:12:19,380 --> 01:12:21,700
culturally significant
and fantastic,

1367
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,660
but it was also very scary
that we knew people
were out to harm us.

1368
01:12:24,740 --> 01:12:27,100
We had to get out the country
at one time.

1369
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,900


1370
01:12:30,980 --> 01:12:33,300

Well, then they went to the States.

1371
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:37,740


1372
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,780
(MAN IN AUDIENCE) Hey, Johnny!

1373
01:12:41,340 --> 01:12:45,100
And in the meantime, I'd already
started taking some steps

1374
01:12:45,180 --> 01:12:48,140
to talk to other musicians,
like Steve New.

1375
01:12:48,220 --> 01:12:50,140
And I met this guy Rusty Egan,
he was a drummer,

1376
01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:52,740
and I'd already been writing
a couple of song ideas.

1377
01:12:52,820 --> 01:12:56,620
As soon as we heard
that Glen had quit the band,

1378
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,100
we were on the phone.

1379
01:12:58,180 --> 01:13:01,700
And he said, "As a friend
and a representative of EMI,

1380
01:13:01,780 --> 01:13:04,380
we see you as the main tunesmith
in the band.

1381
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,820
We'd be more than interested
in anything you come up with."
I thought, fucking handy.

1382
01:13:07,900 --> 01:13:10,260
And when I was on the lookout
for a singer,

1383
01:13:10,340 --> 01:13:12,860
everybody wanted to sound like
Rotten, last thing I wanted.

1384
01:13:12,940 --> 01:13:16,220
..Rich Kids. There's Glen Matlock,
formerly with the Sex Pistols,

1385
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,020
and Midge Ure, who was with
a Scottish teenybop group
called Slik.

1386
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,100


1387
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,340


1388
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:30,660
This is a kid had played
in the ultimate teenybopper group,
boy band, Like.

1389
01:13:30,740 --> 01:13:35,100
To get him as the frontman
was another clever stance from Glen.

1390
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,100
OK, this is called 'Rich Kids.'

1391
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:38,380


1392
01:13:44,100 --> 01:13:46,340
What I did want to do
with the Rich Kids

1393
01:13:46,420 --> 01:13:49,420
was not be
a second division Sex Pistol.

1394
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:51,860
And that's why it kind of came out
a bit different.

1395
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,820


1396
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,300


1397
01:13:56,380 --> 01:14:00,380
This is the band that were
the missing link between Punk

1398
01:14:00,460 --> 01:14:03,500
and what we were about to do
in the '80s with New Romanticism.

1399
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:05,740
They bridged that gap,

1400
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,540
and that was a massive inspiration.

1401
01:14:09,020 --> 01:14:13,620
(INTERVIEWER) Do you think it will
be sort of a New Wave kind of words

1402
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,460
and angry songs?

1403
01:14:15,540 --> 01:14:17,820
No, I mean I'm not
that kind of angry person.

1404
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,540
That's one of the reasons
I'm no longer in the Pistols.


1405
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,060


1406
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:28,300
(INTERVIEWER) Is there
a particular reason
why you're not playing Los Angeles

1407
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,860
or New York or...
(LYDON) There's
a very definite reason,

1408
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,660
and all those places
that says you're obvious sellouts.
But like, who plays down South?

1409
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:36,660


1410
01:14:39,380 --> 01:14:41,500
Playing in the South,
that was a great idea.

1411
01:14:41,580 --> 01:14:45,540
Down there they had this guy
cutting himself on stage,

1412
01:14:45,620 --> 01:14:48,100
with spiky hair
and not giving a fuck.

1413
01:14:48,180 --> 01:14:51,900
That was a spectacle.
It really was a spectacle.

1414
01:14:53,020 --> 01:14:56,540
(SOUTHERN ACCENT) The Pistols
are just outta sight.

1415
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:01,260
I think they got a lotta balls.
(INTERVIEWER) Is it what they sing?
It isn't what they sing.

1416
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,580
Get outta here!
What do they sing? They sing.
Get outta here.

1417
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:06,780
It was just getting crazy.

1418
01:15:06,860 --> 01:15:10,340
We had lunatics following us around
all over the place.

1419
01:15:10,420 --> 01:15:12,140
The police
were on the side of the stage,

1420
01:15:12,220 --> 01:15:16,660
and the record company were worried.
We had security all around us.

1421
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:18,860
It was getting horrible.

1422
01:15:18,940 --> 01:15:21,380
I thought someone was gonna die
on that tour.

1423
01:15:21,460 --> 01:15:24,780
They nearly did, with Sid
just causing chaos everywhere,

1424
01:15:24,860 --> 01:15:27,060
and the drug-taking
and all that thing. The band,

1425
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:28,340
it went quickly downhill.

1426
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:30,780
(LYDON) This is no fun.

1427
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,940
No fun at all. No fun.

1428
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,820
I said to the audience,
"Ever get the feeling
you've been cheated?"

1429
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:39,300
And I meant it,
and I still do to this day.

1430
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,060
The whole thing went sour.

1431
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:44,500
So we split.

1432
01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:48,260
Ever get the feeling
you've been cheated? Goodnight.

1433
01:15:48,340 --> 01:15:51,260
It was getting dark and horrible,
and, to be honest,

1434
01:15:51,340 --> 01:15:54,180
I was glad when it was over
at the end of that American tour.

1435
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,300
I was relieved too.

1436
01:15:56,380 --> 01:15:58,940
You know, I'd had enough.
That's the way it was.

1437
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,660
That was the way it was meant to be.

1438
01:16:03,020 --> 01:16:06,580
Sid was in the hospital.
It was a blizzard,

1439
01:16:06,660 --> 01:16:10,380
and I went down to CGBGs that night
and there's Joe Stevens

1440
01:16:10,460 --> 01:16:13,260
with Johnny Rotten.
He asked me if I had a cigarette.

1441
01:16:13,340 --> 01:16:15,700
I said, "Here, man, take it."
And he goes, "Oh."

1442
01:16:15,780 --> 01:16:17,700
He goes, "Is this
a token of your respect?"

1443
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,940
And I said, "Well, no.
I actually feel bad for you,
cos you're outta work." (LAUGHS)

1444
01:16:22,020 --> 01:16:24,020
It was an icebreaker right there,
you know.

1445
01:16:24,100 --> 01:16:26,460
Do you keep in touch
with any of the people

1446
01:16:26,540 --> 01:16:29,540
that you've played with before?
Anybody in the band? No.

1447
01:16:29,620 --> 01:16:32,060
They never bothered to ring me,
so I won't ring them.

1448
01:16:32,140 --> 01:16:35,860
It was really heavy at the time.
And yeah, I was glad.

1449
01:16:35,940 --> 01:16:38,820
I thought we were just gonna
split up for a few months,

1450
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,820
maybe, then get back together.

1451
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,980
But it never worked out like that.

1452
01:16:43,060 --> 01:16:45,460
Then Sid came back to London
with his tail between his legs.

1453
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,260
Then he had a big drug problem.

1454
01:16:48,340 --> 01:16:51,620
But he moved into Maida Vale,
in London,

1455
01:16:51,700 --> 01:16:54,900
and he was friends
with some of the same people,

1456
01:16:54,980 --> 01:16:58,660
and then Nancy'd be around,
and I saw him quite a lot.

1457
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,180
I've been with Sid
ever since the first day
I got to England,

1458
01:17:02,260 --> 01:17:05,060
and we're partners in crime.
(SID SPEAKS UNDECIPHERABLY)

1459
01:17:05,140 --> 01:17:07,980
We have good fun.
We wipe the shit off,

1460
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,020
and we help each other out.

1461
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:11,500
I do remember once,

1462
01:17:11,580 --> 01:17:15,740
there was Nancy
holding her hand over a bowl.

1463
01:17:15,820 --> 01:17:18,860
She cut her wrist,
sort of cut her wrist,

1464
01:17:18,940 --> 01:17:21,100
eating an ice cream. I go,
"Oh, Nancy, what you doing?"

1465
01:17:21,180 --> 01:17:23,100
She's going, "Well,
Sid don't love me anymore."

1466
01:17:23,180 --> 01:17:25,580
I said, "Oh, well, never mind.
Do you want a cuppa tea?"

1467
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,060
She'd be like, "No, it's alright.

1468
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:31,100
I'll just eat the ice cream."
And it was all like play-acting
kind of stuff. I liked Nancy.

1469
01:17:31,180 --> 01:17:33,700
She was like one of
the handful of women

1470
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:35,660
that were on the scene at CBGB.

1471
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:36,900
You know, we were all kids.

1472
01:17:36,980 --> 01:17:40,140
I got to know Nancy
and she sort of explained to me

1473
01:17:40,220 --> 01:17:43,780
that she had had a rough life,
a rough home life.

1474
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,340
I don't know if you saw
any of the gigs,
but Sid was like really shining out,

1475
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,700
and John was being like nothing.

1476
01:17:50,620 --> 01:17:52,980
(INTERVIEWER) What was it
that you thought

1477
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,420
the Pistols were trying to do?

1478
01:17:54,500 --> 01:17:57,420
Was it just like
kick the Establishment up the arse?

1479
01:17:57,480 --> 01:17:58,980
(SNORES)

1480
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:00,420
Sid?

1481
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:03,500
And we were sitting in the pub
one night together,

1482
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:05,340
and he's going, "The thing is, Glen,

1483
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:07,220
people seem to think we're enemies,

1484
01:18:07,300 --> 01:18:09,580
but here we are
sitting having a drink together."

1485
01:18:09,660 --> 01:18:11,380
And I said, "Yeah,
it's kind of funny that."

1486
01:18:11,460 --> 01:18:13,260
He said,
"Can't we do something about it?

1487
01:18:13,340 --> 01:18:15,620
You know,
to prove that we're not enemies."

1488
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:16,980
I said, "Well I'll tell you what,

1489
01:18:17,060 --> 01:18:19,540
maybe we could do a little gig
for a laugh."

1490
01:18:19,620 --> 01:18:22,940
He went, "Oh, really?
Who would we get?"

1491
01:18:23,020 --> 01:18:26,100
I said, "Well, I'll tell you what,
why don't we get Steve New,

1492
01:18:26,180 --> 01:18:28,980
who was my guitarist
in the Rich Kids then,

1493
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:30,460
and maybe Rat Scabies?"

1494
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:34,580
He said, "Who's gonna play bass?"
I said, "Well, I'll play bass.
You sing." "Oh, oh, alright."

1495
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:36,420
This was like on a Monday,

1496
01:18:36,500 --> 01:18:38,380
and we was playing
the Electric Ballroom

1497
01:18:38,440 --> 01:18:39,940
the following Friday or Saturday.

1498
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,580
Sid Vicious, I was in the Rich Kids,

1499
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,380
and Rat was in the White Cats.

1500
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:46,060
Vicious, White, Kids,

1501
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:50,780
boom, and it sold out.
(VICIOUS, LIVE) This one's
dedicated to my honey, Nancy.

1502
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:53,620


1503
01:18:55,780 --> 01:18:57,620
There was loads of people
at the gig.

1504
01:18:57,680 --> 01:18:59,540
I remember Thin Lizzy came down,

1505
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,180
and I think that's where I met
Blondie for the first time.
Joan Jett and I went together,

1506
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:04,900
and Marc Bolan was there.

1507
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,380


1508
01:19:08,440 --> 01:19:09,660
They had no material

1509
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:13,660
and they did 'I Wanna Be Your Dog'
three times.
Kept getting encores,

1510
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:18,140
and we didn't have any more songs.
So we did the same set
of about 10 songs three times.

1511
01:19:18,220 --> 01:19:20,340
I mean, what happened
after that gig,

1512
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:22,660
Sid was gonna go to America,

1513
01:19:22,740 --> 01:19:24,740
and we didn't do too bad
after the gig,

1514
01:19:24,820 --> 01:19:27,180
and then in a kind of drunken moment
of largesse,

1515
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:31,740
I said, "Let's just give Sid
the money for the gig." A couple
of days later he went to America.

1516
01:19:33,220 --> 01:19:37,620
The thing was, I didn't realise
that he was always skint.

1517
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,380
He didn't have any money,
and I didn't realise
how bad he'd become,

1518
01:19:40,460 --> 01:19:42,500
and Malcolm
wasn't giving him any money.

1519
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,380
So him and Nancy's on their own.

1520
01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:46,020
I didn't know that.

1521
01:19:46,100 --> 01:19:50,140
I've given him several grand
of money to go to America.

1522
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,140
He turns up in New York, loaded.

1523
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,540
Sid, damn you!

1524
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:58,860
Fuck.

1525
01:19:58,940 --> 01:20:02,380
So I don't know if I didn't help
somehow, in some small way,

1526
01:20:02,460 --> 01:20:06,820
help him with his demise,
undeliberately.

1527
01:20:07,900 --> 01:20:09,780
(REPORTER) Tonight Vicious
is in real trouble,

1528
01:20:09,860 --> 01:20:11,740
charged with the murder
of his girlfriend

1529
01:20:11,820 --> 01:20:13,500
at Manhattan's Chelsea Hotel.
Vicious,

1530
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,460
whose real name is John Ritchie,
had lived at the Chelsea
with 20-year-old Nancy Spungen

1531
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:18,820
for about three weeks.

1532
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,260
This morning,
Vicious called an ambulance
to the West 23rd Street hotel.

1533
01:20:22,340 --> 01:20:24,660
When it arrived,
Ms Spungen was already dead

1534
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,380
of a stab wound in the stomach.

1535
01:20:29,420 --> 01:20:32,300
Really sweet enough guy. I mean,
I didn't really get to know him

1536
01:20:32,380 --> 01:20:34,900
until after fucking Nancy was dead.
He just got outta jail.

1537
01:20:34,980 --> 01:20:37,580
He was actually sober,
and you could talk to him,

1538
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,740
and he was a very sad character.

1539
01:20:40,820 --> 01:20:43,460
I mean, he was, you know,
I asked him flat-out one time,

1540
01:20:43,540 --> 01:20:46,540
"Did you do it?"
And he goes, "I don't know."

1541
01:20:47,620 --> 01:20:50,460
(INTERVIEWER) And what do you think
made it happen?

1542
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:56,860
It was meant to happen.

1543
01:20:56,940 --> 01:21:00,020
Nancy always said she'D die
before she was 21.

1544
01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:04,020
Sid Vicious
will not have to stand trial

1545
01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:07,620
for the murder of a girlfriend
at the Chelsea Hotel.

1546
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,100
Sid is no longer vicious. He's dead,

1547
01:21:10,180 --> 01:21:12,860
his nude body found
in a Greenwich Village apartment,

1548
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,900
spoon and syringe nearby.
(REPORTER) The ex-Sex Pistol
was described as happy

1549
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:21,420
about prospects for a bright future
when he came here to 63 Bank
last night.

1550
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:24,500
You just have to accept it.

1551
01:21:24,580 --> 01:21:29,220
I could no more save him
than I could've killed him.

1552
01:21:30,660 --> 01:21:33,620
(INTERVIEWER) Were you close to him
at that time?

1553
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:35,500
He was my best mate.

1554
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:39,420
All I can say
is that we really tried,

1555
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,460
everybody tried to talk to him,
Steve and Paul.
(INTERVIEWER) Do you feel

1556
01:21:42,540 --> 01:21:44,820
if he'd never met you,
he might be alive today?

1557
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:49,700
I don't know.

1558
01:22:05,220 --> 01:22:08,380
First person I see up here
is Joe Strummer,

1559
01:22:08,460 --> 01:22:12,500
who was a friend of mine.
I remember Joe wearing this.

1560
01:22:12,580 --> 01:22:15,420
Generation X,
there's Tony James there,

1561
01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:18,340
who used to knock around
with Mick Jones.

1562
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:20,580
Scabies there, up there.

1563
01:22:20,660 --> 01:22:23,380
Very good drummer,
but he's a bit impulsive.

1564
01:22:23,460 --> 01:22:26,340
About a few years ago
I was having a jam with him

1565
01:22:26,420 --> 01:22:29,660
and was playing away and he did
this fantastic big drum fill

1566
01:22:29,740 --> 01:22:33,420
that ended like one and a half beats
into the next bar,

1567
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,620
which it shouldn't have done.
It just all fell apart.
We was only rehearsing,

1568
01:22:36,700 --> 01:22:40,580
and it all broke down, and I went,
"Rat." And he said, "Glen, I hate it

1569
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,740
when you can't follow me
when I go wrong like that."
(CREW LAUGHTER)

1570
01:22:43,820 --> 01:22:46,540
So there's kind of
quite a lot of connections

1571
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:48,700
in this room for me.

1572
01:22:48,780 --> 01:22:52,100
But the only thing is,
they got pictures of Pistols

1573
01:22:52,180 --> 01:22:56,540
without me in it. So I'm gonna
have to address that issue.

1574
01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:01,500
It's funny how the media gave us
that illusion about the Pistols,

1575
01:23:01,580 --> 01:23:03,740
that it was all Sid, when it wasn't,
it was Glen Matlock.

1576
01:23:09,540 --> 01:23:11,340
It's kind of funny,
I don't get up in the morning

1577
01:23:11,420 --> 01:23:13,980
thinking
I used to be in the Sex Pistols.

1578
01:23:14,060 --> 01:23:15,780
But everything I've done
over my life,

1579
01:23:15,860 --> 01:23:20,620
I've never been allowed
to forget about the Sex Pistols.

1580
01:23:20,700 --> 01:23:23,500
But all I've ever
really wanted to do,

1581
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,900
and maybe that was
one of the reasons I fell out
with the other guys,

1582
01:23:26,980 --> 01:23:29,780
you know Malcolm,
was being a working musician.

1583
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:31,500
And d'you know what?

1584
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,420
I'm 67 now, and I've managed that.

1585
01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:36,220


1586
01:23:36,300 --> 01:23:39,300
After the Pistols,
I got a gig with Iggy Pop.

1587
01:23:39,380 --> 01:23:41,900
I'm on tour with Iggy Pop
around Europe and America

1588
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:43,540
and I played on his 'Soldier' album.

1589
01:23:43,620 --> 01:23:46,580
With the Rich Kids,
it was fantastic.

1590
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,260
I got to work with Mick Ronson,

1591
01:23:48,340 --> 01:23:50,860
he produced the album,
and I became mates with him

1592
01:23:50,940 --> 01:23:52,380
and he asked me
to do other projects.

1593
01:23:52,460 --> 01:23:54,820
There's people that influenced me
I got to work with.

1594
01:23:54,900 --> 01:23:57,620
Johnny Thunders,
I actually did a tour of Japan

1595
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:59,420
and Australia with Johnny.

1596
01:24:03,140 --> 01:24:07,700
Look at the stuff he's done since.
He's played with the fucking Faces.

1597
01:24:07,780 --> 01:24:11,220
The band that I used to
stand in front of the mirror

1598
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:12,620
at 14 pretending I was in them.

1599
01:24:12,700 --> 01:24:15,940
We headlined the Fuji Festival
in Japan. You know Ronnie Wood,

1600
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,340
and Kenney Jones and Ian McLagan.

1601
01:24:18,420 --> 01:24:21,180
If someone said to me,
I can see into the future

1602
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,220
and later on down the line
you're gonna get one of
the Sex Pistols playing with me,

1603
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:29,380
I would go, "Go away.
Don't be silly."

1604
01:24:29,460 --> 01:24:32,900
But sure enough, he did.
(CROWD CHEERING)

1605
01:24:32,980 --> 01:24:35,940
Then I got a phone call
a year and a half ago

1606
01:24:36,020 --> 01:24:38,180
from Clem Burke,
Blondie was short of a bass player,

1607
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,340
would I go and help him out?
And I said, "When,
late in the summer or something?"

1608
01:24:41,420 --> 01:24:44,420
He said, "No, on Tuesday."
I was like, oh...

1609
01:24:44,500 --> 01:24:46,540
I knew
Glen would be perfect for it.

1610
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:50,140
And we did this arena tour with Glen
and it's just carried on since then.
It's been great.

1611
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,180
Oh my god. (LAUGHS)

1612
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:57,140
Yeah, you know Glen is great.

1613
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:58,900
Yes, he's a sweetheart.

1614
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:00,980


1615
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,740


1616
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:09,580


1617
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,940


1618
01:25:13,020 --> 01:25:16,100

for your sweet design

1619
01:25:19,060 --> 01:25:21,020
In my experience,
there's some people

1620
01:25:21,100 --> 01:25:25,220
that were born to be in rock,
and that's it.

1621
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,740
It's just, you know, who you are,

1622
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,580
and I think that applies to him.

1623
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:31,940


1624
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,420


1625
01:25:35,500 --> 01:25:37,300
That's one of the things
I like about Glen,

1626
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:39,780
that it's not past glories.

1627
01:25:39,860 --> 01:25:42,060
I think his current work
is his strongest ever.

1628
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:44,420
Really with his finger on the pulse

1629
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:48,140
of what's going on politically
in the country and the world,

1630
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:49,820
and he's writing about it.

1631
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,620


1632
01:25:53,700 --> 01:25:57,220
People always say the Pistols
was like a sea-change.

1633
01:25:57,300 --> 01:26:00,460
Maybe it was in a way,
but I dispute that.

1634
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,580
I think music's like a baton race.

1635
01:26:02,660 --> 01:26:05,980
You know, the people from before you
that you dig,

1636
01:26:06,060 --> 01:26:09,020
you take the baton off of them,
and you do your bit,

1637
01:26:09,100 --> 01:26:13,020
and then you pass the baton on
for the next lot of people.

1638
01:26:13,100 --> 01:26:16,780
You know, here's this man
Glen Matlock, who changed my life.

1639
01:26:16,860 --> 01:26:21,180
Yeah, I put seeing the Sex Pistols
in the same bracket

1640
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:22,820
as Paul meeting John.

1641
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:23,860


1642
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:34,340
Glen leaving sadly did take away

1643
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,380
that marvellous accidental synergy

1644
01:26:37,460 --> 01:26:41,900
that they had, and they couldn't
really seriously recover from it.

1645
01:26:41,980 --> 01:26:46,340
What a damn good band we were,
to be quite frank,

1646
01:26:46,420 --> 01:26:50,500
and how right it was
that we ended when we did.

1647
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:55,340
You know, I'm proud of the songs,
and every time you hear
a Sex Pistols record on the radio,

1648
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:56,900
especially the first three singles,

1649
01:26:56,980 --> 01:26:59,500
you might be listening
to Johnny Rotten and Steve Jones

1650
01:26:59,580 --> 01:27:02,700
and Paul Cook, but you're also
listening to Glen Matlock.

1651
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:07,340
He is a writer and an idea-maker.

1652
01:27:07,420 --> 01:27:09,420
I don't think
we would have the Sex Pistols

1653
01:27:09,500 --> 01:27:12,220
the same way we knew them
without him being a main ingredient.

1654
01:27:12,300 --> 01:27:16,700
It takes a a lot of people
to make something great,

1655
01:27:16,780 --> 01:27:20,300
and different opinions
and when they align,

1656
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,420
that's when it's something special.

1657
01:27:22,500 --> 01:27:25,940
And in the end of the Pistols,
they were very special.

1658
01:27:26,020 --> 01:27:28,660
And there's not a lot of bands
that can say that they have

1659
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,580
one record that impacted everything.

1660
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:36,500
It's amazing with that one album,
how they're spoken about
in the same breath as the Who,

1661
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:39,700
or even the Stones or the Beatles,

1662
01:27:39,780 --> 01:27:42,180
or all great rock and roll bands,
which they were one of.

1663
01:27:42,260 --> 01:27:45,100
They only had to make one, really.
It's so good.

1664
01:27:45,180 --> 01:27:47,460
No-one sounds
anywhere near that powerful.

1665
01:27:47,540 --> 01:27:49,980
'Never Mind'
raised the bar for everyone.

1666
01:27:50,060 --> 01:27:52,180
It's one of the most classic records
of all time.

1667
01:27:52,260 --> 01:27:55,980
Amazing, I mean I played that
to death when it came out.

1668
01:27:56,060 --> 01:27:58,420
That's their one statement
to the world.

1669
01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:01,140
And imagine getting it
so right once.

1670
01:28:02,500 --> 01:28:04,900
I made 10 albums,
and in my own mind,

1671
01:28:04,980 --> 01:28:08,740
they don't match up to that.
And I'm an arrogant bastard.

1672
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:12,460


1673
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,700


1674
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:19,260


1675
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:23,020
We have got something in common
that only four people
in the whole world have,

1676
01:28:23,100 --> 01:28:25,620
and it's like when we get
in the room, if we ever did again,

1677
01:28:25,700 --> 01:28:27,780
we start playing,
we're the Sex Pistols.

1678
01:28:27,860 --> 01:28:31,100
It wouldn't have happened
without all the elements,

1679
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:32,460
which is mainly the band,

1680
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:37,580
but it wouldn't have happened
without Malcolm, without Vivienne,
without Jamie Reid's artwork.

1681
01:28:37,660 --> 01:28:40,100
It wouldn't have happened
without Little Helen,

1682
01:28:40,180 --> 01:28:42,180
Helen of Troy,
who was mates with Malcolm.

1683
01:28:42,260 --> 01:28:46,020
There's a power
to the music of the Pistols.

1684
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:49,300


1685
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,580


1686
01:28:59,380 --> 01:29:03,300
Yeah, maybe we could've
made another album or two.

1687
01:29:03,380 --> 01:29:07,660
But, you know,
bands tend to do a ballad or so,

1688
01:29:07,740 --> 01:29:11,420
something like the Rolling Stones'
(SINGS)

1689
01:29:11,500 --> 01:29:14,620
Can't imagine Johnny Rotten
singing something like that.

1690
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,660


1691
01:29:17,740 --> 01:29:21,540
Alright,
that's Glen Matlock on bass.

1692
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:22,740
(CROWD CHEERING)

1693
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:27,300
That's a good place to end then.

1694
01:29:29,820 --> 01:29:33,020

you'll get no reply

1695
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:36,340


1696
01:29:36,420 --> 01:29:39,740

and you'll get no reply

1697
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:43,100


1698
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,700


1699
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:52,260


1700
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,060


1701
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:58,620


1702
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:02,100


1703
01:30:02,180 --> 01:30:05,020

cos we're not all there

1704
01:30:05,100 --> 01:30:08,780

cos we don't care

1705
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,060


1706
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,180


1707
01:30:16,440 --> 01:30:20,420


1708
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:24,460


1709
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:27,300


1710
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,940


1711
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:34,140


1712
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,700


1713
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,820


1714
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:47,260


1715
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:56,540


1716
01:30:56,600 --> 01:31:00,180